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Andrew Reid

An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

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10 hours ago, jase said:

Interesting, I need to check this out, thanks! Still, you would have the post-sync pain, but on the other hand if it is decent, why not... Yet, this is not really usable for ambient stuff, right?

Hey @jase,

First of all, I really liked the wedding video, and I actually like it a bit more raw than some of the overproduced wedding videos that I see.  Yes, you can see the judder in the beginning, but I don't think it takes away from the images.  I had the same problem with the IBIS during my documentary when I tried some pans and camera movement (see the shot of the costumes in the museum) or when someone might have bumped me.  Overall though the GX80 IBIS really helped me be able to move fast, and unobtrusively compared to having to use a monopod or tripod.  For shorter static shots you probably cannot tell that it was handheld.  

I like the look of your movie too.  Was that due to a filter that you are using or done in post?

As for the audio and microphones - I think you are in Europe.  I own the Shure VP83F (I got it second hand) so if you want to try it out PM me and I can see if I can loan it to you.  Since I mostly have had cameras without audio input (LX100, GX7, Olympus, GX80) I decided to get this one with built-in recorder.  The microphone works well and is very sensitive it picks up great ambient sound.  I have had troubles with wind noise as the deadcat I have isn't the greatest, but the low-pass filter helps a bit with that.  The mic has a shockmount and which isolates it quite well from the camera body.

Dave Dougdale did a comparison with the Shure VP83 (the one without the recorder):

I my last documentary, I used a combination of the Shure VP83f, the Rode SmartLav+ and Tascam DR-10, the Instamic Pro, and a Sony ICD-SX1000 hand recorder (small and way better than a Zoom H1, but unfortunately discontinued).  If I had some time, I should put a few clips together from the documentary comparing the raw audio.  The Instamic was a bit of a godsend.  It doesn't have as good sound as the SmartLav+ but it can be controlled remotely with a mobile phone and can record a safety track at a lower dB (configurable).  (The DR-10 also has a safety track but only records in mono).  Also it has magnetic attachments so I hid it out of sight on walls, chair legs, overhead lights.  The magnet also made it easy for kids and other on-mic talent to put on their own mics.  The instamic has a mic muff which helps with the wind.  It is a bit uglier than a Lav mic, but I don't think that it was too bad.  If I can get my son on-camera I will set up a test comparing the Instamic, my SmartLav+ into my phone, the Shure on-camera, the camera mics, and the Sony hand recorder close but out of camera on the floor.

7 hours ago, tonysss said:

:-) my wedding "combo"  GH5 Sigma 18-35 and spot shoot  GX80 - Pan 42,5 f1.7

Hi there, I really liked the shots.  Was everything there handheld or did you use a gimbal at all?  How did you match up both cameras?  What profile did you use for both cameras?  How do you like the 42.5/1.7?  It seems to almost double as a macro lens.

I'm really curious about this combination as trading in one of my GX80 and have sold my 12-35 and 35-100 2.8 lenses to upgrade to a GH5.  I was thinking of using the 12-60/2.8-4 on the GH5 and the 42.5/1.7 with dual-IS on the GX80.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Glad to hear! Myself, I'm sorta getting fed up with Instamic. Now, I've backed numerous crowdfunding campaigns (100+) but this is absolutely one of the worst ones I've dealt with communication wise. There's just no information and they'll even ignore e-mail inquires (friendly ones, with patient intervals of weeks/months), just responding to them with... silence. I've recommended Instamics to a fella doing car reviews stuff (would be great for commentary and exhaust notes I figured) once and then he's gotten his in before I did mine... now I'm okay with delays, complications and what not, but man, no communication is really something that's no bueno in my book.

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8 hours ago, sgreszcz said:

Hey @jase,

First of all, I really liked the wedding video, and I actually like it a bit more raw than some of the overproduced wedding videos that I see.  Yes, you can see the judder in the beginning, but I don't think it takes away from the images.  I had the same problem with the IBIS during my documentary when I tried some pans and camera movement (see the shot of the costumes in the museum) or when someone might have bumped me.  Overall though the GX80 IBIS really helped me be able to move fast, and unobtrusively compared to having to use a monopod or tripod.  For shorter static shots you probably cannot tell that it was handheld.  

I like the look of your movie too.  Was that due to a filter that you are using or done in post?

As for the audio and microphones - I think you are in Europe.  I own the Shure VP83F (I got it second hand) so if you want to try it out PM me and I can see if I can loan it to you. 

Thanks for the kind words! Obviously I watched some weddings videos before, but tbh - I dont really like them, so I gave it a bit of my own unplanned style of doing things - glad it worked out. At least my cousin was super happy, so thats that.

About the the look: I used the Tiffen Ultra Contrast 3 as always, graded with FilmConvert in post including some shadow / highlight adjustments, but nothing too spectacular. 

About the the Shure: great offer! I will think about it. Your review sounds quite promising. Does anyone know if the sound quality of the Shure is better than, lets say a Rode videomicro directly connected to the camera? I know myself and the less I have to fiddle around when recording, the better I can focus on what I want to do. Switching on the camera and a mic all the time and then synching it in posts sound rather.. annoying compared to connecting a mic without a preamp directly to the camera. But maybe the quality is way low with such a mic compared to the ones with integrated amp... Then again, a videomicro should be way better than the onboard mic. Choices.

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Just to chime in on the audio stuff. I'm awaiting a delivery of this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1349307-REG/saramonic_sr_vrm1_compact_liner_pcm_recorder.html

I thought about the Shure recorder, but wanted more flixibility, as I already own a number of mics. This funky device essentially turns any mic into the Shure one. It should arrive today, so when I can I'll do some comparisons and post them here.

Ideally I wanted to Tascam DR-10X, but for some totally bonkers reason it doesn't have phantom power, making shotgun mics unusable.

Speaking of the Tascam DR-10 line, you could look into the 10SG, it's a shotgun with built in recorder. You can also set a clap tone, so syncing up later is much quicker. Again though, it didn't fit what I wanted it to do, but might be a good option for other people.

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3 hours ago, jase said:

Your review sounds quite promising. Does anyone know if the sound quality of the Shure is better than, lets say a Rode videomicro directly connected to the camera? I know myself and the less I have to fiddle around when recording, the better I can focus on what I want to do. Switching on the camera and a mic all the time and then synching it in posts sound rather.. annoying compared to connecting a mic without a preamp directly to the camera. But maybe the quality is way low with such a mic compared to the ones with integrated amp... Then again, a videomicro should be way better than the onboard mic. Choices.

For the Tiffen, do you just use that filter and no ND?  I think I'm going to experiment with no ND and motion blur in post processing...

According to the Dave Dugdale test, the Shure is better in build quality and RF shielding than the original Rode VideoMicPro and better at off-axis (side) sound isolation.  However, the overall sound quality was better on the Rode.  Always the best to get a mic as close as possible and sync even if you have to hide it somewhere.  Doesn't help with people moving around though.

Yes, sync is a pain.  I haven't figured out a good workflow or habit for run-and-gun that makes it easy to remember to start/stop record on the Shure or to deal with the hassle of one long audio track on the Shure and syncing with multiple little video clips.

I did use the Rode VideoMicro when I had my Olympus OM-D EM-5ii (with not so great input preamps) and it worked better than the built-in mics with excellent wind muff.

I'll try to bribe my son to sit in and model for me tonight to test my audio.  I'm actually pretty rubbish at audio (especially post-processing) but it is something I want to improve in.  Here is a BTS from a Rode Reel short I did showing my minimal audio setup from when I had the Olympus (I still can't believe how great the IBIS in that camera was!).  I also plan on doing a colour swatch / skintone comparison with my lens collection and GH5 (when it arrives).

 

11 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Glad to hear! Myself, I'm sorta getting fed up with Instamic. Now, I've backed numerous crowdfunding campaigns (100+) but this is absolutely one of the worst ones I've dealt with communication wise. There's just no information and they'll even ignore e-mail inquires (friendly ones, with patient intervals of weeks/months), just responding to them with... silence. I've recommended Instamics to a fella doing car reviews stuff (would be great for commentary and exhaust notes I figured) once and then he's gotten his in before I did mine... now I'm okay with delays, complications and what not, but man, no communication is really something that's no bueno in my book.

Man, that really sucks.  I think the only reason I got a couple of mics from the first batch is that I had a couple of projects planned and they wanted me to try them out.  The original firmware was flaky (bluetooth connect), but after upgrading them they work much better.

I've supported a few video/photo kickstarters myself (PeakDesign - excellent, Instamic, Breakthrough NDs - great, Rolocam - haven't used it, SteadXP - refunded, PlexiDrone - refunded, Aetho gimabl - refunded, several documentaries) but have been lucky with most having shipped and being useful to me.

I try to keep my gear as minimal as possible, which is why I love micro4/3 and cameras like the GX80.  The Instamic is just so good for getting better (but not the best) audio quickly and unobtrusively.

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15 hours ago, sgreszcz said:

Hi there, I really liked the shots.  Was everything there handheld or did you use a gimbal at all?  How did you match up both cameras?  What profile did you use for both cameras?  How do you like the 42.5/1.7?  It seems to almost double as a macro lens.

 

GH5+18-35  Beginning of the day, preparation of the bride and groom, mostly monopod or handheld. During the day and at the ceremony i used Gimbal. And GX80+42.5 is hanging on the throat and everything is handheld. Pan 42.5 has fantastic picture and great stabilisation. (manual focus is bad, i used FN button for focus)

GH5 - Profile 709L , 0,-5,-5,-2 ,  luminance level 16-235 , Master Pedestal Level +5 , White balance AWB (A5,M1) exposure 0 ,  zebra 95 %

GX80 - Cinehack :-) . 0,-5,-5,0  White balance AWB (A5,M1) 

 

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On 02/10/2017 at 11:23 PM, mercer said:

@sgreszcz that e-m5 Mark II Footage looks great. After shooting with the Oly, what made you choose the GH5 over the e-m1 Mark II?

Actually, that is a good question...  I've always preferred the Olympus colours and look over Panasonic, and I started shooting video with my original E-M5.  I think I switched away from the E-M5ii for a couple of reasons: the GX80 came out with IBIS and dual-IS with improved colour and 4k in a small body with a tilt LCD which I prefer over the flip-out ones.

Come to think of it (which I really haven't before you mentioned it), I probably could shoot with a E-M1ii (a-cam) and E-M10iii (b-cam) combo to get the better IBIS, 4k and the killer dual-IS with the 12-100/f4 for events (as well as better EVF than the GX80). 

I guess I was lured by the GH5 2.0 firmware update, 4k/60 as well as 1080p/180, and 1.4 4k ETC zoom.  I mostly have Lumix lenses now which work better with the Panasonic bodies for IS (especially the long 100-400 zoom).  I don't think that the E-M1ii is much less expensive than the GH-5 with PL12-60 after I trade in one of my GX80.  I've already sold my two Panasonic 2.8 zooms so I hope that the ETC mode on the GH5 can help me rely on the one main 12-60 zoom and less primes too.

Other than the Olympus look and the better IBIS, any other reasons to go with the E-M1ii over the GH5?  Just curious if anyone has any experience as I've not seen much recently about the E-M1ii.

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10 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Quick question: Is the quality better for AVCHD or MP4 in 1080p/25fps on the GX80?

Hey John, AVCHD has 50i to 25p and 24mpbs, MP4 has 25p and 20mpbs. So first one has higher bitrate and second one higher resolution, if I figured that right.

I would go with the true 1080p and MP4, as it has 20mpbs for twice the resolution in the y axis than the AVCHD 1080i is providing.

 

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Hey guys, 

I've got a question for you all related to weather proofing and exposing my camera to salt water. I'd appreciate your input.

I'm going on a trip for a couple of weeks down to Guatemala and part of that trip will be sailing out on the ocean for a few days. I'm debating whether to take my GH5 because of the weather sealing or my gx85 since it's smaller, and I can just toss it in a drybag quickly. The lens that I was considering taking with both cameras was the Pana/Leica 12-60. 

Appreciate you reading. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Moshimo Garcia said:

I've got a question for you all related to weather proofing and exposing my camera to salt water. I'd appreciate your input.

You might want to read this before exposing to salt water a camera that is not fully weather sealed - https://www.dpreview.com/news/4176919219/this-is-what-happens-when-a-weather-sealed-camera-takes-a-dip-in-salt-water

It's a sad story of a Sony A7sII that is probably terminally damaged by salt water.

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For the people using the built in mic.
I posted some photo's and another video a while back. I just uploaded my video on the 3D printed version of the windbreaker.


Still have to get used to making these videos and talking into the mic.

But for people who want, the files are free to download.

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As Panasonic is throwing new cameras at us (GH5=$2000, GH5S=$2500, G9=$1700), it would seem that they've forgotten the lower budget that the GX80/85 (<$600) brought us. I really don't do anything that would warrant a budget upwards of $1500. I hope the DSLM doesn't just have a future like these expensive flagships Panasonic is offering. I share the opinion of the Drew Network when he was talking about the GH2... and moving to a GH3. I think something similar is happening now these newer Panasonic cameras concerning pricing. Drew is a funny guy... wish he made more videos. Anyway, here's where he speaks about that. Actually, a hacked GH2 is probably still an option.

 

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@John Matthews It would be regrettable if Panasonic lets its midrange lineup die, but a hacked GH2 would be a giant step backward from a G85/GX85. Your money would be better spent on a new prime lens, a microphone, a tripod, storage, a cage, or just about anything other than that. 

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26 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@John Matthews It would be regrettable if Panasonic lets its midrange lineup die, but a hacked GH2 would be a giant step backward from a G85/GX85. Your money would be better spent on a new prime lens, a microphone, a tripod, storage, a cage, or just about anything other than that. 

I meant a hacked GH2 would be an option for someone who had nothing. Yes, the gx80 produces an excellent image... so does the hacked GH2 for the money ($200).

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4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

As Panasonic is throwing new cameras at us (GH5=$2000, GH5S=$2500, G9=$1700), it would seem that they've forgotten the lower budget that the GX80/85 (<$600) brought us. I really don't do anything that would warrant a budget upwards of $1500. I hope the DSLM doesn't just have a future like these expensive flagships Panasonic is offering. 

I understand that it is disappointing to see a giant price tag on the new cameras, but I don't think Panasonic is actually moving backwards. I was one of the few people who really liked the gh3. The battery life is incredible and it marked Panasonic's move to actually providing high bit rate support rather than having to rely on a hack. I've also never had any moire issues with it. 

Additionally I want to say that I shoot on a budget and don't do enough serious work to justify buying the most expensive cameras. Hell, I started out with an Olympus e-pl2 which provided barely useable 720p. I bought the gh3 after the gh4 came out and planned to buy the gh4 when the gh5 came out. But the gx85 was so good I thought that I could really serve my needs better with a gx85 than with the gh4. I have no idea what Panasonic will follow up the g85/gx85 with, but if it's a huge disappointment for some reason, you can at least bet that the gh5/gh5s won't still be selling for >$2000. Can't you already get a gh5 for $1400?

If we can get 4k 422 output on the gx85, then I think it's going to be difficult for Panasonic to really mess things up. As long as they keep the features they already have they can only move forward.

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4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

I meant a hacked GH2 would be an option for someone who had nothing. Yes, the gx80 produces an excellent image... so does the hacked GH2 for the money ($200).

I would argue the a hacked GH2 has a better look to it than the GX80 by a mile. Way more BMPCC looking than anything out now, maybe other than a few clips I have seen form the new GH5s. Sure the GX80 was a more refined camera, but better looks wise, nah.

I think Panasonic had went backwards until just now for a Cine output look. I always thought a GH4 looked like shit to be honest in my mind. My Af100A had the look also, basically a GH2 sensor. Sometimes progress is really not progress.

It's like the Sony FS5. No way it has a better 1080p output than the PMW F3. But yeah on paper it is a better camera than the F3, but not for Color Science, Cine output. But it can do 4k and I can see why people use them , not counting it is a Lot smaller, and the Variable ND thingy is almost worth that feature alone. But better output wise, Nah again.

The original Arri Alexa is the same way. I really doubt any new 4k Arri will look better, I am sure they hope it can at least look as good.

Kind of crazy to me to think all these company's got it right 5,6 years ago, and have in a sense gotten worse?? Maybe you can't bet a good look with a 4k sensor, I don't know?

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I went to a Panasonic Masterclass with William Wages ASC and B&H and he had some interesting things to say. They were demoing a move shot with the Panasonic Varicam and one of the shots were cut with the GH4 flawlessly. I asked how difficult was it to match the shots he said it wasn’t at all and he prefers the GH line for his work. He says the GH4,5 & 5s allows you to get shots you cant with cine cameras and he rates ALL as very good pro level cameras. That settled the “is it good enough” argument for me

5BCF9913-5889-4751-8FE0-D2AA9475BCEC.jpeg

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