Jump to content
wolf33d

Canon EOS R5 - 8K30p 4K120p

Recommended Posts

I feel I'm still fighting the battle to convince people of 4K.  When 4K came along, the arguments against HD vs SD had been virtually won.  I'm not seeing the same thing with 4K vs HD now.  Many still feel the difference isn't worth it over HD. 

Personally I love shooting 4K and welcome 6K and 8K when it is practical to work with.  But if 4K is still a hard sell for many clients, where will 8K sit.  How much of us are doing cropping on a regular basis?

Then again, I don't think people will be shooting 8K if its implemented in anyway like the GH5 has 6K.  Which I feel is the most likely outcome.  There'll be the initial novelty of 8K videos edited from the the bite size clips the camera can make, but that novelty wears off when the majority of the audience for such videos can't watch at that resolution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

I feel I'm still fighting the battle to convince people of 4K.  When 4K came along, the arguments against HD vs SD had been virtually won.  I'm not seeing the same thing with 4K vs HD now.  Many still feel the difference isn't worth it over HD. 

Personally I love shooting 4K and welcome 6K and 8K when it is practical to work with.  But if 4K is still a hard sell for many clients, where will 8K sit.  How much of us are doing cropping on a regular basis?

Then again, I don't think people will be shooting 8K if its implemented in anyway like the GH5 has 6K.  Which I feel is the most likely outcome.  There'll be the initial novelty of 8K videos edited from the the bite size clips the camera can make, but that novelty wears off when the majority of the audience for such videos can't watch at that resolution.

A lot of people I know still finish on HD.  However, more people shot in 4k to be able to reframe, zoom in, pan, etc.  8k would allow people to fiinish in 4k or allow even extreme push in and pans.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, eleison said:

A lot of people I know still finish on HD.  However, more people shot in 4k to be able to reframe, zoom in, pan, etc.  8k would allow people to fiinish in 4k or allow even extreme push in and pans.  

I'm not denying the benefits.  And I welcome 6K and maybe one day 8K for that reason.  But whereas 4K soon got deliverables in the form of 4K Blurays and streaming, I don't see 8K being a deliverable format anytime soon, given that even 4K has yet to make its full mark on consumers; so its benefits exist just for better 4K and cropping. 

Given the choice, currently I would favour working with 6K over 8K; you still get the crop benefits, and better 4K.  However for many, it's a much larger file size for minimum benefits, especially if they're not cropping.  I've been delivering 4K content from 4K only cameras for years, and whilst 6K or 8K would give me improved 4K, it's not a difference that often leaps out at you from a YouTube or Vimeo link.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am welcoming 8K. I don't need it, but I will never say we don't need it ever. 
If that camera could shoot 32K, well fine, as long as that's not the only mode of course cause I don't want my Mac to explode :). 

I remember a conversation with an IT guys years ago, I was getting a new PC and wanted 4GB of ram. He was laughing saying that 1GB was fine, and that never ever we would need 4GB of RAM on a computer, it was just physics and stuff. Yeah right, as I speak my system is using 30GB out of the 40 I have. Lol. 

So back to resolution. Right now my need is higher FPS 4K, not 8K. But a camera capable of 8K means the camera can handle a lot. If it can handle a lot, it probably can handle higher fps 4K, which is exactly the case in this rumor. So we are winning on all front. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not as simple as "welcoming 8K or not", but rather encouraging brands to produce video-centric bodies that feature less megapixels and faster read-out rates for faster FPS and higher bit-depth, more reliable AF, less rolling shutter. Imagine you have to sacrifice all of that due to a 8K30p mode. And even to photography, higher megapixel counts come at a significant cost - to obtain sharp images, you must shoot faster shutter speeds, which is a great determent to low-light photography.

Look at Sony a7R IV: larger mp count forced them to introduce a crop factor for 4K video recording (where there was none in mk III). Was the jump from 42 to 60 mp really worth adding that caveat? Couldn't they wait to release a higher mp body with non-cropped 4K?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

There is actually a governing body that confirms whether or not a TV panel has the advertised 8K pixels, so many panels might not even resolve the advertised 8K. Also, you'd need to sit incredibly close to the panel to even see the difference:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmurnane/2018/10/28/dont-be-fooled-8k-tvs-are-a-waste-of-money-for-most-viewers/#260a35f93036

So, are you going for a smooth 4K workflow with "reasonable" files sizes or are you going to go mad rendering all the pixels no one will ever see?

You need to be close to the TV to see pixels, but that is not what higher resolution is for. The advantage is to resolve small objects into identifiable things instead of blobs, it has nothing to do with resolving pixels. On a 8K panel with 8K footage you will see a leaf.....on a HD panel the exact same image will show you an unrecognizable blob which your brain guesses is probably a leaf since it is green. Small objects involve a large group of pixels, and you absolutely can see that. If your subject matter is a face then that might not be important, so for talking heads you don't need a lot of resolution, but if your subject matter is comprised of a lot of small elements (trees or hair for example), then you do need that resolution. If you are not aware of this as a shooter then you are probably not shooting to the level you could be as a result of your ignorance.

The other advantage of higher resolution is that it reduces the scale of debeyering artifacts to the point where you might not notice them anymore. This would include what people refer to as "sharpening" (but is actually a debeyering artifact). With true 8K footage on an 8K display sharpening settings become irrelevant because the debeyering artifacts are too small to be noticed (people will still be deliberately blurring their footage however, because of Pavlovian conditioning from an old mind set derived from obsolete technology)

Larger sensors also have the advantage of minimizing light scatter on the beyer filter which results in purple blooming (mostly - in some cases in can be other colors, depending on the light source) around highlights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Mokara said:

No they wouldn't. Display devices in general run at 60Hz, so that is what people would shoot at.

Since there are 8K TVs out there, and likely increasingly so in a year or two, yes, people would shoot in 8K.

These clients are delivering in 24p not 60p. They only overcrank do they can slow-mo any shot at will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want 6K. I would shoot almost anything except a static talking head in 6K for the many benefits it gives you including flexibility to crop, image stabilization, downsampling and noise reduction into a 4K deliverable.

Of course things are moving to 8K but I think the uptake on 8K content is going to be extremely slow. Much, much slower than 4K as the benefits are increasingly diminishing for the storage and processing costs. 6K is a happy medium for a long time to come for anybody not shooting nature films for National Geographic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more I read about these rumors, the more I think that the R6 will be the camera for me. But I want a Canon FF ENG camera to pair it with that shoulder mounts better and has a better price than the C500mk2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, abehalpert said:

The more I read about these rumors, the more I think that the R6 will be the camera for me. But I want a Canon FF ENG camera to pair it with that shoulder mounts better and has a better price than the C500mk2.

I think we’ll see the first RF cinema camera at NAB 2020 in April.

Since the C500 II can do it all, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the C300 III be the their highest end RF camera. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2020 at 5:35 PM, wolf33d said:

I remember a conversation with an IT guys years ago, I was getting a new PC and wanted 4GB of ram. He was laughing saying that 1GB was fine, and that never ever we would need 4GB of RAM on a computer, it was just physics and stuff. Yeah right, as I speak my system is using 30GB out of the 40 I have. Lol.

Knowing your posts almost as my own hands : P I can imagine the talk between you two... LOL ; )

You're a funny guy, miss to read them more often, as much as your shots BTW, dude, what have you done with all that power? : -)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

Knowing your posts almost as my own hands : P I can imagine the talk between you two... LOL ; )

You're a funny guy, miss to read them more often, as much as your shots BTW, dude, what have you done with all that power? : -)

Haha. Trying to hack EOSHD, but I need more ram. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, colepat said:

So what are the chances we see this announcement in a couple days here? Is it real?

Guess we will see on 13th 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CanonRumors update: 

I have heard from a few people since this post, and apparently Canon Rumors has caused some stress at a few Canon subsidiaries. One person did tell us that the rumored Canon EOS R5 specifications are very close to 100% correct, but a few things are off. I did receive further confirmation that 8K is there though.
We should hear more tonight/tomorrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...