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RED Komodo

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Sony only competes with RED on Venice level.

Sonys mirrorless offering is imo in awful shape for serious videographers & filmmakers  in late 2019 with one of the lowest bitrate 8-bit codecs and no clear competitive video oriented solutions (cough *A7S3 AWOL*).

And even when you step up to the FS/FX line, Sony has no direct internal Raw options unless you fork out for a $2K add-on device.

In short, Sony shouldn’t even be mentioned in this discussion imho.

When you think of RED, you think of their game changing compressed RAW.

REDs move into sub $7K cine cameras is mainly to counter BMD, Z cams, C200/1DX3,  and all the other cams that may offer RAW, BRaw, ProResRaw etc for under 10 grand.

As compressed RAW patent holders, REDs main concern is that if they can’t beat the competition in court, they can try in camera shops with something like the Komodo.

 

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3 hours ago, eleison said:

RED does have a reputation.   But that reputation is based on things that they did aprox 10 years ago.  Amazing spider, The Hobbit, the girl with the dragon tatoo, etc.  films that were shot on a RED camera........ 10 years ago.  Very few high production hollywood movies are shot with red now (it's arri).  They use to be a major player in sundance, not any more.  RED had the first mover advantage.  To people who don't know better, it has the reputation of being good, and expensive. 

True, the Alexa Mini is without a doubt the reining King of Hollywood. The thing gets rented out more than any other body for Blockbuster/high end commercial projects. 

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It’s a different business model though.

ARRIs get mainly bought by rental houses and Hollywood studios.

REDs are owned by successfull DOPs & production companies.

Hell the Raven was even sold on the Apple store:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170903102810/https://www.apple.com/us_smb_78313/shop/product/HK8Q2ZM/A/red-raven-camera-kit-final-cut-pro-x

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5 minutes ago, Django said:

It’s a different business model though.

ARRIs get mainly bought by rental houses and Hollywood studios.

REDs are owned by successfull DOPs & production companies.

Hell the Raven was even sold on the Apple store:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170903102810/https://www.apple.com/us_smb_78313/shop/product/HK8Q2ZM/A/red-raven-camera-kit-final-cut-pro-x

ehh I guess, I heard the Raven was pretty terrible though. 

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11 hours ago, eleison said:

(does RED even design their own chip???)

They do not. 

3 hours ago, Django said:

REDs are owned by successfull DOPs & production companies.


ARRIs are owned by DoPs and production companies as well, yes it is more commonly rented, but lots of owners of them out there as well. 

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7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Depends on what YT channels you listen to, lots do discuss the URSA range. 

But then again many run of the mill channels only talk about the low end mirrorless they can get themselves, or the highest of high end stuff they lust over. And forget about the world in between!. 

 

I agree!!

But lots of people are wowed by "RED", and are biased towards buying a RED instead. 

Just pointing out they're quite easily within reach if you look at DSMC1 bodies (let alone original R1 bodies!!).

I guess this whole thing boils down to how much hype impacts camera sales, and if the hype that is out there is from the people who actually buy cine cameras.

To both of those points, I'd suggest we really don't know.

I am reminded though that the UMP has a really gorgeous image.  If only it was, like, 10 times smaller!

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8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Wasn't that the purpose of Raven? Wonder why they discontinued it. 

Raven was definitely a more introductory model, but it had a huge flaw compared to Komodo - namely, it was still a part of the DSMC2 system. Which means that even if you could get a cheaper Red camera in Raven, you still had to spend loads of money to get a working model: Red proprietary media ($2-3k), large and expensive V-Mount batteries and chargers ($500-900), Red modules to get any sort of audio ($2k), a Red monitor ($2k), and a few other needed accessories. So while Raven was fairly cheap ($6k), it costs close to $14k to get it rolling on an all day shoot. On top of that, it had an old sensor with a 1.8x crop and bad in low light. And then it was also just as heavy and intense to use as any other Red DSMC2 camera. 

Whereas the Komodo may be just the price of a camera for a lot of people. Many users probably have a few CFast 2.0 cards, the Canon batteries can easily be found for $25-$40 a pop, lots of people have a good SmallHD or Atomos monitor (and if not, they are only $250-300) already, and the camera uses a brand new sensor that is supposed to be graet in low light and only has a 1.33x crop (or no crop with a speedbooster) - and you can get a variable ND with it with the Canon mount.

So, the Komodo really may only be $6-7k to get a full working package up and running (price pending, of course). Big difference between that and the Raven's close to $13-15k. Plus the Komodo seems like it will be a much better, smaller, lighter camera. 

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On 11/26/2019 at 6:40 AM, kye said:

Yes, two phrases come to mind...  "cautious optimism" and "hope for the best, plan for the worst" :) 

Wise words, man, pity people tend to forget them : -)

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After spending some time tinkering with the Zcams at B&H a few days ago, can't see the Komodo's appeal unless you really want Red's raw or the RF mount. Raw, ProRes, CFast or SSD recording, lots of HFR options, two brilliant and incredibly tiny m43 bodies - one costing just $800 with raw capabilities, a 6k s35 body with a m43 or EF mount and two FF cameras that cost less than a FS5. Zcam posted on their Facebook group that a fully electronic E-mount is coming as well in the next few months. I'm sure the Red cult will be all over the Komodo, but in this space I'd go Zcam.

Chris

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The compressed RAW is really nice on RED as well as Blackmagic. 
 

If blackmagic releases a Pocket 6k with a better mount it'll be an instant buy for me. 

The Zcam S6 and F6 are really nice but slightly out of my budget ATM, plus the F6 is an EF mount ?

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1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The Zcam S6 and F6 are really nice but slightly out of my budget ATM, plus the F6 is an EF mount ?

It's user interchangeable - E mount and PL is coming and if you really wanted you could put MFT on it even

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21 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Emount would be good, very adaptable. 

More adaptable than MFT?

They have practically the same flange distance, so I would have thought they'd be similar.

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