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JurijTurnsek

Sigma FP

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13 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

"Better" is always subjective. If you ask me h.265 is a total deal breaker.

I want a high bitrate h.264 or Prores over it any day. But I get that others may like it.

I kind of agree. H265 is hard on most PC's and I don't think it yields any better results unless you are using very low bitrates. 

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52 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

10bit H.264 isn't much better on my Mac. No Finder preview, no Quicktime X playback and no Finder thumbnails either!

This is consistently the most annoying thing when all you want to do is preview your raw footage. 

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It just makes finding individual clips a lot slower... I don't always want to have to import everything into a Premiere project just to see what I've shot.

I mean c'mon Apple what the fuck are you doing all day.

10bit H.264 should be working 100%... In every part of the OS.

Funnily enough, no such problem with the NX1 H.265 with current version of Mac OS.

Oh and while on the subject... Does Adobe Premiere edit ADOBE Cinema DNG yet? Or was that a bit beyond those geniuses as well?

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2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Oh and while on the subject... Does Adobe Premiere edit ADOBE Cinema DNG yet? Or was that a bit beyond those geniuses as well?

I believe they are just going from one profit party to the next, they could care less...

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20 hours ago, Thomas Hill said:

This is why I'm expecting (hoping) the price tag for the base unit to be competitive with the BMPCC4K. More expensive, no doubt, but competitive when you consider FF vs M43.

Same. I think the smart play would be between $1300-$1600.

The BMPCC 4K put a wrench in a lot of cameras. So unless the FP shoots internal Raw at around the price point of the P4K, I don’t really need it.

As a hobbyist, I only NEED 1080p Raw. I already have FF Raw with my 5D3. And I have S16 Raw/ProRes with my newly acquired BMMCC, so to upgrade to 4K Raw, the FP would have to be competitive with the P4K.

20 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I thought it was in the Fall I think Glenn?

The next year should be pretty interesting. If I’m being honest with myself, I probably won’t upgrade my cameras for another year or two, so hopefully by then all of my boxes will be ticked for $2500 or less.

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49 minutes ago, mercer said:

I think the smart play would be between $1300-$1600.

I think logically it will be in that sort of price bracket and probably at the lower end of it.

It doesn't have an EVF and for stills shooters they will be expecting it to be at least as cheap as a full frame mirrorless that does like the Canon RP or even the Sony A7ii.

My concern would be that Sigma have set some optimistic prices for most of their other cameras at launch but those cameras were always going to be niche so hopefully the economies of scale with this one will change that.

I hope so anyway as I'm already doing the "Well, I've already got so many of the BP-51 batteries already that it almost doesn't make economical sense not to buy it" justifications to my better half ;)

49 minutes ago, mercer said:

The BMPCC 4K put a wrench in a lot of cameras. So unless the FP shoots internal Raw at around the price point of the P4K, I don’t really need it.

I might be in full on justification mode here but I'm pretty ambivalent about it recording RAW internally.

In the context of it being a modular camera anyway, using a Samsung T5 drive or whatever to record to is perfectly OK by me for a few reasons.

The first one is the capacity aspect and the second is actually about then just being able to attach that drive to the computer and start editing it instead of having to tit about with card readers. Those drives are also a bit more readily available if you're out and about than having to track down CFAst or ultra fast SD cards.

The other reason is a bit more philosophical in that I think the FP is a stills camera and it is a cine camera but its not necessarily a hybrid.

The modularity of it, to me at least, means its a sensor in a box and you dress it accordingly or not dress it in the case of when you want it to be a stills camera.

As a cine camera, I envisage it having a grip that incorporates more power but also has an SSD slot and you just attach that as one piece at which point what is internal and external recording is a bit of a grey area if you know what I mean. For example no one considers a RED to not record RAW "internally" but the reality is that it is doing it externally internally ;) and this would then be exactly the same.

I think that is why Sigma were making a big issue about opening it up to accessory manufacturers as a way of having much better integrated solutions than having to cobble together rigs.

To be honest, even if I was ostensibly taking it out to use as a stills camera and thought that I might want to record some raw video then its no hardship to have a T5 in a pocket should the need arise. 

In point of fact, if Sigma put in a file transfer page to move stills on to a T5 directly from the camera then I'd always have one with me anyway because, again, that whole card reader thing gets old for transfer particularly if you want to edit on a tablet.

See, I told you I was in full on justification mode :) 

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16 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

hope so anyway as I'm already doing the "Well, I've already got so many of the BP-51 batteries already that it almost doesn't make economical sense not to buy it" justifications to my better half ;)

That’s how I ended up with my Micro... I already had some Canon batteries. I already had an Ikan VL35 monitor. I already had some c-Mount lenses. I already had a bunch of SD cards... so it seemed irresponsible not to buy it. 

18 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

might be in full on justification mode here but I'm pretty ambivalent about it recording RAW internally.

In the context of it being a modular camera anyway, using a Samsung T5 drive or whatever to record to is perfectly OK by me for a few reasons.

I should have clarified that I don’t mind if it’s recording to an SSD, I just don’t want to have an external monitor/recorder. 

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8 minutes ago, mercer said:

That’s how I ended up with my Micro... I already had some Canon batteries. I already had an Ikan VL35 monitor. I already had some c-Mount lenses. I already had a bunch of SD cards... so it seemed irresponsible not to buy it. 

Thats my boy !

8 minutes ago, mercer said:

I should have clarified that I don’t mind if it’s recording to an SSD, I just don’t want to have an external monitor/recorder. 

Yeah if its only through HDMI then they can fuck off and take these shitty low capacity batteries with them.

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I love the idea of modularity as long as the modules are very intuitive and seamless (Red does a good job with this). I love the idea of having a small camera like this that will take beautiful 24mp, full-frame stills that I can have with me at all times. 

But I also love the idea of having something that can be built out a bit to make it a real cinema camera for professional use - that means mostly a strong battery solution (battery grip or handle with battery slot inside), the hot shoe adapter (already confirmed), an audio solution of some sort for at least 2-channel audio, etc... But I'd love to keep it small

Is it just me, or should we have better battery/power solutions in 2019? 

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I think those things will come pretty quickly from 3rd parties through the openness that Sigma have to share things like the downloadable 3D models of the chassis as well as opening up the spec for external control.

The 3D model thing is great as it will allow 3rd parties to really shape solutions like grips to be tightly integrated and prototype them quickly. With any luck they'll have those available even before the camera ships so people can get on with it.

The strap lug design they've got on it where you can unscrew them and they have 1/4" 20 threads underneath ready to attach stuff to is a really smart idea.

As for power, they do list a DC barrel adapter on the page but I have to confess that I've got no idea where it connects to the camera !

Sigma do actually make a dual battery grip for the SD Quattro and the FP uses the same battery so its not beyond the bounds of possibility that they could release one themselves. It look enormous (and it is!) but thats as a by-product of it matching the form of the camera. The actual business part of it could be made to fit the FP.

1121176016_sdquattrogrip.jpg.53081797438c36f5c3578145018c95d1.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think logically it will be in that sort of price bracket and probably at the lower end of it.

It doesn't have an EVF and for stills shooters they will be expecting it to be at least as cheap as a full frame mirrorless that does like the Canon RP or even the Sony A7ii.

I dont think stills shooters will be interested in this camera. It has no mechanical shutter, a fairly slow sensor readout (as evident from a 1/30th flash sync speed) and therefore will be pretty much useless for photos of anything moving and longer focal lengths.

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29 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

I dont think stills shooters will be interested in this camera. It has no mechanical shutter, a fairly slow sensor readout (as evident from a 1/30th flash sync speed) and therefore will be pretty much useless for photos of anything moving and longer focal lengths.

Yeah, I think for anything remotely serious it will be difficult to see (no pun intended) beyond it not having an EVF.

Presumably from a stills perspective Sigma look at it as an RX1 type of offering with interchangeable lenses but how close it gets to that FF compact concept when you whack on a lens on it is debatable as its only the 40mm f2.8 that is anywhere near being an appropriate size but is a bit slow and a bit not 35mm! 

With m mounts then its far more appropriate but that then causes its own issues manually focusing without an EVF.

They claim to have a mitigated a lot of the issue with only having an electronic shutter according to Yamaki but yeah that sync speed is useless.

[In announcing the camera's development, Sigma CEO Kazuto Yamaki acknowledged the rolling shutter effect but said 'the sensor used has a very fast reading speed. It is able to shoot without major problems in most shooting scenes.']

44 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

As for power, they do list a DC barrel adapter on the page but I have to confess that I've got no idea where it connects to the camera !

Ah-ha!

Its on the lesser seen right hand side of the camera.

1167167218_ScreenShot2019-07-14at01_58_56.png.09ec41e8381b486fc83f510ced766d1e.png

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8 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

That looks like a dummy battery to me. Hopefully it takes a range of voltages.

It is this cable.

The SD Quattro has a dummy battery set but this one is a DC cable that plugs into that port on the camera.

No spec on it as yet.

1491856890_ScreenShot2019-07-11at18_09_33.png.2d6576c5643fa49ba01b77dd98fc345c.png

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1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

It is this cable.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply it necessarily wasn't a DC connector separate to the battery, I literally just meant it looked like a dummy battery, and I assumed that little port on the side was for a dummy battery wire when I initially saw the camera.

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10 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Oh and while on the subject... Does Adobe Premiere edit ADOBE Cinema DNG yet? Or was that a bit beyond those geniuses as well?

They did a couple of years ago before I switched to FCPX. Guess they removed it again..

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11 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

I dont think stills shooters will be interested in this camera. It has no mechanical shutter, a fairly slow sensor readout (as evident from a 1/30th flash sync speed) and therefore will be pretty much useless for photos of anything moving and longer focal lengths.

And that is my 'problem' with it based on what we currently know.

I love the idea of modularity, but it does seem at this stage to be a more video-biased camera for sure.

 

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You are Sigma designer.

You are about to release in few months the very first FF foveon mirrorless camera.

You know the disadvantages of Foveon technology ( huge weakness on video capture, severe weakness on still photography on high iso)

What you think to keep your clients happy ? 

You release a small not foveon body with same mount and same sensor size to be part of  a set with upcoming FF Foveon camera....FP will do whatever Foveon could not , body size is not that big to fit in your bag and suddensly you have a solution capable of everything.

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