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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Resolution for sure not : ) Details? Will you need to end there even risking to end with oversharpened borders for outcome? No way you reach that as actually real cinematic, count on it if so : )) As much as no details will praise the cheater, no good devil you'll find in the details when more than anything, perception is your game after all (E :-)

what i mean by resolution is effective resolution, i remember canon 1080p having less visible resolution than gh3 in 720p.

13 hours ago, Damphousse said:

So will the atrocious rolling shutter.  No free lunch.

sure but rolling shutter only show up on quick pan or fast moving objects, which must be 5% of the time but low texture details shows up on every single frame

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17 hours ago, amanieux said:

the weakest point of this camera will be resolution : with only 8 mpix on a bayer mask it means that yuv information will be interpolated in 4k. a 24mpix sensor that scales downs to 4k like sony a6500 will have 3x more details and it will be very easy to notice. 

Yes, notice as video. What matters most is the effective color resolution, and in that the BMPCC2 will be better. Introducing more spatial resolution without also increasing color resolution results in the video look. Something looks off, and it is discontinuity in color gradient  as it does not change at the same frequency as does the spatial information 

 

 

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17 hours ago, amanieux said:

the weakest point of this camera will be resolution : with only 8 mpix on a bayer mask it means that yuv information will be interpolated in 4k. a 24mpix sensor that scales downs to 4k like sony a6500 will have 3x more details and it will be very easy to notice. 

I'll take color and recoverable information over pure resolution any day.

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17 hours ago, amanieux said:

the weakest point of this camera will be resolution : with only 8 mpix on a bayer mask it means that yuv information will be interpolated in 4k. a 24mpix sensor that scales downs to 4k like sony a6500 will have 3x more details and it will be very easy to notice. 

The Alexa Mini in open gate is a 7.5mp camera... I haven’t heard many people complain about detail. Obviously the P2 won’t be nearly as good as an Alexa Mini, but there is a reason why the P1 was often referred to as a Baby Alexa.

But yeah if you prefer Red over Alexa, you may also prefer sLog from the a6500 over BMDFilm on the P2.

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Cinematographers often use diffusion filters to make image more soft, film-like, less digital looking. So high resolution is not always the very important part of a good looking picture.

Glimmerglass TM 1.jpg

No filter.jpg

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19 minutes ago, mercer said:

The Alexa Mini in open gate is a 7.5mp camera... I haven’t heard many people complain about detail. Obviously the P2 won’t be nearly as good as an Alexa Mini, but there is a reason why the P1 was often referred to as a Baby Alexa.

But yeah if you prefer Red over Alexa, you may also prefer sLog from the a6500 over BMDFilm on the P2.

i have not looked at alexa mini but here is a difference in detail between  a7sII vs a6300 for 4k video , look at the detail on the bricks in the center https://ibb.co/jghu47

26 minutes ago, Snuff said:

Cinematographers often use diffusion filters to make image more soft, film-like, less digital looking. So high resolution is not always the very important part of a good looking picture.

Glimmerglass TM 1.jpg

No filter.jpg

agree that diffusion filters are very often used but high resolution + diffusion filter in not the same kind of dreamy like softness in the image as blurriness from lack of resolution

 

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53 minutes ago, Logan said:

I'll take color and recoverable information over pure resolution any day.

fair enough, we all have different taste for image . is human eyes+brain system more sensitive to resolution or to color ?

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2 hours ago, Philip Lipetz said:

Yes, notice as video. What matters most is the effective color resolution, and in that the BMPCC2 will be better. Introducing more spatial resolution without also increasing color resolution results in the video look. Something looks off, and it is discontinuity in color gradient  as it does not change at the same frequency as does the spatial information 

 

 

 

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Cinematographers use diffusion filters on the Alexa and it’s only 2.7K, 3.3K at open gate. The problem is camera resolution has been decided upon by monitor and TV manufacturers. Now if you don’t shoot 4K, your image supposedly doesn’t have enough resolution?

In my opinion, I think a Pocket 2 could have had a 2.5K image and be equally as appealing. 4K at this price point, is usually best for downscaling, so it will be interesting for me to see what the downscale looks like from 4K P2 footage.

But for the most part, I’ll shoot 1080p at the two base ISOs, on a clean sensor, with cheap SD cards. I already have a bunch of Canon batteries for my 5D3, so if battery time is bad (I suspect about 30-45 minutes) I’ll just swap them out. I’ll get a Rode NTG mic, and maybe a couple XLR lavs, for in-camera audio and have an amazing little, run and gun cinema camera... no need to rig up this little beast.

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50 minutes ago, amanieux said:

fair enough, we all have different taste for image . is human eyes+brain system more sensitive to resolution or to color ?

I suppose that you take into consideration that Blackmagic image is 12bit vs Sony's 8bit - and what does it mean?

About dilema between resolution/color as you put in regards A6500 vs BMPCC, I'd say that problem is that our eyes simply don't perceive too much resolution as natural when it is not support by enough color-gradient informations between pronounced border of details. So, even that what we can see in, say The Revenant, is not "natural" for our eye's discerning cappability - but because of enormous reserve of color nuances that mitigate result of oversharpness - our eyes more easily accommodate to that, what seems as new cinema-look paradigma.

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6 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Correct. Day and night for first time with this new generation cameras to begin with EVA (solid name for : ) Why other than that? ; ) Dual base ISO there is 800 & 3200 though :-)

https://www.proav.co.uk/videos/blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera-4k/

You are right about 800. 3200. But in the video the BM guy says at the same time he talked about the Dual IOS feature that the sensor in the new 4k BMPCC has Never been used before. Interesting. I remember that statement from before somewhere else also. So that means Maybe it is not the GH5s sensor??

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On 4/11/2018 at 9:44 PM, jonpais said:

Here's an interview with Bob Caniglia of Blackmagic holding the Pocket 4K and Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8.

 

These bloggers have zero journalist skill, they keep asking 10 times the same question, if you are not the first on a news, take your time and try to ask different question or even if you can't record from the camera you have a big 5 inch display that you can zoom in. Take that fucking camera and comment at least what you are seeing. Take for example rolling shutter, I mean it is so easy to pan right left and have at leat an impression about rolling shutter, but until now zero. I don't know if he is an actor or what, it is as if he is chocking, when asking the price at least 3 times, as if the whole world didn't know it two days before.

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20 hours ago, amanieux said:

the weakest point of this camera will be resolution : with only 8 mpix on a bayer mask it means that yuv information will be interpolated in 4k. a 24mpix sensor that scales downs to 4k like sony a6500 will have 3x more details and it will be very easy to notice. 

My Sony A7s Only has a 12mp sensor and it has one the the sharpest 1080p outputs there is. Same with the GH5s. You don't need 50mp sensors to get sharp stuff. Hell the Sony PMW F3 only has like a 3.2mp sensor in it and it has a beautiful 1080p output. Now yeah unlike the EVA1 that has a 5.7k sensor where maybe, not even sure if it does, sure it does, down samples to 4k will look a bit sharper. Same with the A6500 you mention, but the A63000, A6500 have the worse F ing looking 1080p output i the world. So sometimes it just doesn't make a crap how big of a sensor you have in them. Now yeah the A6500 has one of the best 4k output there is. Go figure.

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6 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You are right about 800. 3200. But in the video the BM guy says at the same time he talked about the Dual IOS feature that the sensor in the new 4k BMPCC has Never been used before. Interesting. I remember that statement from before somewhere else also. So that means Maybe it is not the GH5s sensor??

After re-watching the video, it became apparent that the spokesperson meant that BMD had never used that sensor before. 

4 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

These bloggers have zero journalist skill, they keep asking 10 times the same question, if you are not the first on a news, take your time and try to ask different question or even if you can't record from the camera you have a big 5 inch display that you can zoom in. Take that fucking camera and comment at least what you are seeing. Take for example rolling shutter, I mean it is so easy to pan right left and have at leat an impression about rolling shutter, but until now zero. I don't know if he is an actor or what, it is as if he is chocking, when asking the price at least 3 times, as if the whole world didn't know it two days before.

You mean to say you actually watched that video? I was just sharing it because of the wonderfully cinematic zoom lens on there. ?

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4 minutes ago, jonpais said:

After re-watching the video, it became apparent that the spokesperson meant that BMD had never used that sensor before. 

He says it has not been used in ANY previous camera. Hard to say one way or the other. He never mentioned BMD.  We know but we don't. :astonished:

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2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

He says it has not been used in ANY previous camera. Hard to say one way or the other. He never mentioned BMD.  We know but we don't. :astonished:

That’s what I thought at first, too. But according to @IronFilm, the spokesperson was just referring to BMD. And I was inclined to go along with that. 

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5 minutes ago, jonpais said:

That’s what I thought at first, too. But according to @IronFilm, the spokesperson was just referring to BMD. And I was inclined to go along with that. 

It would be a first for BM. They have Never used a sensor that some one else has used before for any camera they have that I know of.

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

You are right about 800. 3200. But in the video the BM guy says at the same time he talked about the Dual IOS feature that the sensor in the new 4k BMPCC has Never been used before. Interesting. I remember that statement from before somewhere else also. So that means Maybe it is not the GH5s sensor??

That Bob Caniglia from BMD about 1:25 minute also states 400 and 3200, so I know nothing for the subject matter :-)

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

It would be a first for BM. They have Never used a sensor that some one else has used before for any camera they have that I know of.

Their 4K sensor...

 

& they use sensors typically from the open market. I think they wouldn't care 

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