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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Parfocal cine-zoom designed specifically for the P4K (and other MFT cameras) Shipping in August for $1699

 

who are they?!! 

The most interesting part in my opinion is that there is a "low" - but very capable - tier for m43 video specialized cameras, and they can mix and match accessories and equipment for the mount. This is quite a market at the moment. Also, Chinese lens makers are multiplying by the year! It was a segment that Chinese were rather behind the previous years. Also, the market starting from lower and lower each year. Expect to earn less, as it goes.

Wish the Multi Turret system comes in m43 with reasonable price.

Also.20-70, which is what? 40-140mm? Noone can have a run n gun lens starting from almost standard range.

My sweet spot personally is 24mm, so 16mm in S35, that is why I am stuck with my old NX1 and the 16-50S lens, and with lens stabilization, and the unique 2-2.8f I am super covered in everything.

As you can see the Olympus has a basic, but good enough for me stabilization, and what it looses in light 4f instead of 2-2.8F of the NX, gains in zoom range, which I am ok with (for the price, I would get a little more light for sure but can't have it all. The lens is rather small and light also).

If it was 14mm in the wide end, just it isn't enough. One reason I was never excited for the 18-35mm. I am loosing all the 2mm from the wide end and 15mm for the tele end, also the stabilization, and gain just 0.2f for almost all the range (until 32-33mm in S) while sharpness is pretty similar..

I would always get the Olympus 12-100mm 4f as a run n gun specialist for m43. We already do and I am super happy about that lens.

 

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4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Can't help thinking that the short end is a bit too long for the Pocket and I'm quite surprised they've made that choice of 20mm.

I wish he'd backed up a bit when she casually mentioned they have a 25-300mm s35 zoom coming as well !

https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/04/12/foton-optics-m1-25-300mm-t2-8-cine-zoom/

https://www.dzoptics.com/en/

That 35mm f1.2 lens they have looks damn nice. No clue of the price? They have a lot of nice toys to buy. Interesting.

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4 hours ago, wyrlyn said:

 

As someone who already owns a 0.95 lens for low light performance, this was hardly a surprise, but it's nice that there are at least two people on the planet that don't think fast apertures are only for bokeh whores..!

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7 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/04/12/foton-optics-m1-25-300mm-t2-8-cine-zoom/

https://www.dzoptics.com/en/

That 35mm f1.2 lens they have looks damn nice. No clue of the price? They have a lot of nice toys to buy. Interesting.

That has leapt in straight to number one in my list of "Bargain lenses that unfortunately are still overpriced by a factor of ten for my pocket" ;)

 

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1 minute ago, BTM_Pix said:

That has leapt in straight to number one in my list of "Bargain lenses that unfortunately are still overpriced by a factor of ten for my pocket" ;)

 

Yeah 22,000.00 Dollars is sort of a factor of about 100 for me lol.

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6 hours ago, anonim said:

I need too much time to find topic about BMMCC, so sorry for posting here, but maybe it could be useful as another example of what BM cameras and especially BMMCC are capable for, or as comparison with Pocket 4k.

  

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing :)

shot with the Laowa 7.5mm F2 MFT :)

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

They are amazing cameras. That was a wonderful short. Mercer will have one again tomorrow when he sees this video lol. 😀

Yeah, that was definitely cool. And soon as I can find one for the right price... hahaha. 

2 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing :)

shot with the Laowa 7.5mm F2 MFT :)

Yeah, I just read that. I can’t say for certain but it looks like it was some variant of ProRes and not Raw. 

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On 4/16/2019 at 11:26 PM, BTM_Pix said:

That has leapt in straight to number one in my list of "Bargain lenses that unfortunately are still overpriced by a factor of ten for my pocket" ;)

 

one word : afterpay  😉

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Soooo I'm going to throw stones here a bit. I tried out the camera an had some serious problems with it. The form factor threw me off. Why for the love of god are BM still putting reflective screens on their cameras for video? 

Tried to test out the camera for a upcoming short. Honestly it did not immediately strike me as being better than the image from my D750, though zooming in the compression differences do show the advantages of the Pocket. The Dynamic range is worse than I was expecting, about on par with my D750. It is vastly inferior to the URSA mini that I had tried previously, and is actually a surprisingly noisy image out of the camera (cleans up nicely in Resolve denoise).

Crop factor was harder to deal with than expected without adding a speedbooster or buying all new glass. Also wanted to rent cine glass for the short, and there is limited options available for wides. 

Most of all seeing the continuing issue of IR contamination from BM sensors seriously drives me up the wall. 

Color is better on the BM, but wondering if a external recorder on the D750 will bridge the gap even further.

Blackmagic (Prores HQ 4:2:2 Arri Alexa Lut) 28mm

TESTINGBM_1.6.1.thumb.png.ea92f9c40538e9f50f7920b5019b6be6.png

D750 (Neutral out of camera) 40mm

STARE_DOWN_1.5.4.thumb.png.88b86767f0e8aa890fa354c6d9648a1c.png

LAMP_testD750_1.3.1.thumb.jpg.3eaad08f246154737a8c729825af5203.jpg

TEST_lampBM_1.4.1.thumb.jpg.ae852b74f620f42e9755cec695ab3fac.jpg

BOAT_1_13.1.thumb.jpg.7a5634c520d847da2d4a3c7c05ca52e1.jpg

scott_1.8.1.jpg

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1 hour ago, Geoff CB said:

Soooo I'm going to throw stones here a bit. I tried out the camera an had some serious problems with it. The form factor threw me off. Why for the love of god are BM still putting reflective screens on their cameras for video? 

Thanks... Is the screen that bad for your usage? There are pretty different information from reviewers.

Also, I suppose  ou know it, and know better than me, but just to remind - actual power of BM camera line lays just in these magic sliders at the left in Resolve when using raw files :) It is so mystical exciting to me to see how blown highlights getting back their picks, how truly molding is WB... I can't resist to feel that something similar maybe it is still possible with my life: bring back to life picks of hopes, totally change skintones of my destiny...

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11 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Soooo I'm going to throw stones here a bit. I tried out the camera an had some serious problems with it. The form factor threw me off. Why for the love of god are BM still putting reflective screens on their cameras for video? 

Tried to test out the camera for a upcoming short. Honestly it did not immediately strike me as being better than the image from my D750, though zooming in the compression differences do show the advantages of the Pocket. The Dynamic range is worse than I was expecting, about on par with my D750. It is vastly inferior to the URSA mini that I had tried previously, and is actually a surprisingly noisy image out of the camera (cleans up nicely in Resolve denoise).

Crop factor was harder to deal with than expected without adding a speedbooster or buying all new glass. Also wanted to rent cine glass for the short, and there is limited options available for wides. 

Most of all seeing the continuing issue of IR contamination from BM sensors seriously drives me up the wall. 

Color is better on the BM, but wondering if a external recorder on the D750 will bridge the gap even further.

Blackmagic (Prores HQ 4:2:2 Arri Alexa Lut) 28mm

TESTINGBM_1.6.1.thumb.png.ea92f9c40538e9f50f7920b5019b6be6.png

D750 (Neutral out of camera) 40mm

STARE_DOWN_1.5.4.thumb.png.88b86767f0e8aa890fa354c6d9648a1c.png

LAMP_testD750_1.3.1.thumb.jpg.3eaad08f246154737a8c729825af5203.jpg

TEST_lampBM_1.4.1.thumb.jpg.ae852b74f620f42e9755cec695ab3fac.jpg

BOAT_1_13.1.thumb.jpg.7a5634c520d847da2d4a3c7c05ca52e1.jpg

scott_1.8.1.jpg

You can easily add a protective anti glare cover to the screen. The DR specs for the pocket and Ursa are not a secret so why is this a surprise and also the sensor size is not a mystery so again why is this an unexpected problem? If you are experiencing a noisy image it would suggest your exposure is not optimal - how are you exposing the P4k?

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14 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Soooo I'm going to throw stones here a bit.

 

....


Crop factor was harder to deal with than expected without adding a speedbooster or buying all new glass. Also wanted to rent cine glass for the short, and there is limited options available for wides. 

Throwing stones is good :)

I can't comment on the P4K, but I'm in m43 land with my GH5 and I think your summary is about right.  FF lenses adapt really well for the longer focal lengths but getting fast/wide/both lenses is the challenge.

In case you're not familiar with the options:

  • Voigtlander make an excellent series of f0.95 lenses
    These come in 10, 17.5, 25, and 42.5mm lengths, which are the equivalents of FF 20mm/1.9, 35mm/1.9, 50mm/1.9, and 85mm/1.9.  They're gorgeous to use, and the aperture ring can be adjusted to de-click.  I only have experience with the 17.5mm one, which is soft at 0.95 but is almost fully crisp at f2.8 (FF f5.6 equivalent) and for some reason has a strange colour shift at 0.95 that cleans up by 1.4
  • I use the SLR Magic 8mm F4 (equivalent to a 16mm F8) that is optically good but not great, but ergonomically is a pig because it's designed for drones not a human user.  There is a Laowa 7.5mm f2 which is more expensive, but seems to be good optically and is designed for human use, and it popular with vloggers due to the 15mm equivalent FOV.
  • The Sigma 18-35 f1.8 on Metabones adapter is popular and optically and ergonomically nice too, although it's heavier than the M43 lenses.

In a sense, I think your criticisms aren't so much that the P4K image isn't great, but rather that the competition is actually really good.. I think we're spending more and more time being overly critical and nit-picky, or making genuine and practically relevant criticisms about cameras that are outputting a level of quality but are a fraction of what equivalent cameras used to cost :)

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15 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Tried to test out the camera for a upcoming short. Honestly it did not immediately strike me as being better than the image from my D750, though zooming in the compression differences do show the advantages of the Pocket. The Dynamic range is worse than I was expecting, about on par with my D750. It is vastly inferior to the URSA mini that I had tried previously, and is actually a surprisingly noisy image out of the camera (cleans up nicely in Resolve denoise).

Crop factor was harder to deal with than expected without adding a speedbooster or buying all new glass. Also wanted to rent cine glass for the short, and there is limited options available for wides. 

Most of all seeing the continuing issue of IR contamination from BM sensors seriously drives me up the wall. 

1) i agree. The form factor is terrible, but not a lot different than a classic dSLR. If you wanted something like an XC15 or Z (like me) I would understand, but now??

2) how noisy it is? It is a dual ISO sensor, 3200 is perfectly normal for this camera. I have delivered 3200 ISO and they didn't have any complain and I know people shooting 6400.

3) obviously a speedbooster is a safe bet. You can put an EF lens on this camera, you can't have a super small and light do-it-all lens like the Olympus 12-100mm 4f on a full frame camera though. It can be an advantage.

4) whatever system you buy - you buy new glass. That is not a point. I have use the camera only with EF lenses anyway, and a lot do.

5) what about the IR pollution? I haven't edit any of the footage, so I do not know.

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If you don't need auto focus, a speedbooster is a cheap easy fix to the crop issue. Although I am not sure why a 1.8 crop is a big issue in the first place. I'd imagine its noisy if you come from the DSLR full frame world. If you are used to shooting with cinema cameras or M43 I doubt it though.

The big dynamic range advantage seems to be when shooting in RAW, especially CDNG. There seems to be a lot of highlight information that something like the GH5 doesn't have.

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