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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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1 hour ago, Snuff said:

 

Makes me really wonder why Blackmagic still refuses to add an OLPF to any of their cameras. Would really help a lot. 
They should work together with Rawlite who do an impeccable job with ther Ursa Mini Pro and 4.6 filters.

4 hours ago, MattH said:

 

The PROAV dynamic range tests are pretty useless.   They don't understand that ISO is not exposure.    So they have not actually increased the exposure at all steps in these tests.  In some they have just changed the iso.  Which just shows how the camera reacts to the same exposure at different iso's.   Thats why you see such a masive difference at the so called "+3 stops" on the pocket4k test.   Between "+1 stops" iso 400 and "+2 stops" 800 thats actually exaclty the same exposure and native iso with a different tone curve aplied.  So there would be no difference in what clipped.  Whereas with the "+3 stops" thats the same exposure but with a real 2 stop iso boost, so the clipping point has gone down 2 stops in a single step.

A better test would be to keep the iso the same and change the actual exposure.   You could then do the same test at different iso's to see how iso effected dynamic range.

 

wait what??
That's crazy lol. That's basically like jumping from over 13 stops of DR with priority in highlights to below 12 stops with shadow priority. Makes no sense at all.

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so now that people are receiving their cameras, what has been peoples experiences on fitting adapters or speed boosters on it,  is there issues with the ffd or sensor stack thickness. i have read that there was issues with an earlier model  at the start or is it a non issue this time round ?

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As of yesterday I'm a P4k owner! Here are a couple of initial observations;

The battery door is not a problem once it's removed :)  The battery is recessed quite a way in so is unlikely to be dislodged by accident.

The battery compartment has rails like the ones on the charger which is unlike any camera I have owned before so this may well be the cause of batteries getting stuck.

The menu system and controls are first rate as an intuitive user interface. 

The lens mount has worrying amounts of play in it compared to my GH5 and BMPCC and with heavy lenses like the 18-35 a gap opens up at the top of the mount between the lens and body flange. If you hold the lens with one hand and the body with the other you can easily rock the lens on it's mount with very little force. I think the spring tabs on the rear of the mount are not strong enough. For heavy lenses I'd want a lens support on the rails. ( anybody else confirm this?)

Battery life is as expected - i.e not great but workable with enough batteries. I have 5 genuine Canon LP-E6's which display % or volts but the BM one has just a crude bar. 

My native M43 lenses - 12-35 2.8, 12-40 2.8 and 12-60 2.8-4 show massive barrel distortion at the widest settings due to the lack of in camera correction but as it has a bigger sensor than standard M43 you do get a significantly wider FOV as a result. I can correct distortion in Resolve fairly easily so it's not a deal breaker but it's quite distracting when shooting to see this amount of distortion. CA is also present on some lenses which can be fixed in post but is more fiddly to do so I'll be choosing my M43 lenses for this carefully.

Tap to focus works well enough but focus assist ( peaking) is very good and much more accurate than on the GH5.

WB function is great as you can just point at a grey card and push to set without digging down into a menu. ( a proper video camera feature)

I've got 128gb Cfast and V90 cards but they don't hold much footage so I reckon a 1TB ext USB-C drive is a must for serious use and a lot cheaper!

The screen is good but pretty unusable outside - it's just crying out for a hood or loupe. I'll probably bodge up a cardboard hood for now until Zacuto or Kinotehnik start making them.

I've only done a few image tests but so far compared to the GH5 it looks like it has colour aliasing on fine edges and is slightly softer. This was to be expected from a non downsampled sensor with no in-camera sharpening or NR but I'm not expecting these issues to be a problem. DR looks to be noticeably but not dramatically better but more testing needed although I don't doubt the tests I've seen already showing a couple of stops advantage. 

It's pretty much as I expected and will be an addition to my GH5 but not a replacement - yet.

Coming tests will be ProRes vs RAW and what lenses work best. 

Oh and for the price it's an absolute steal esp when you get a free copy of Resolve Studio - it's just insane at this price point.

 

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55 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

As of yesterday I'm a P4k owner! Here are a couple of initial observations;

The battery door is not a problem once it's removed :)  The battery is recessed quite a way in so is unlikely to be dislodged by accident.

The battery compartment has rails like the ones on the charger which is unlike any camera I have owned before so this may well be the cause of batteries getting stuck.

The menu system and controls are first rate as an intuitive user interface. 

The lens mount has worrying amounts of play in it compared to my GH5 and BMPCC and with heavy lenses like the 18-35 a gap opens up at the top of the mount between the lens and body flange. If you hold the lens with one hand and the body with the other you can easily rock the lens on it's mount with very little force. I think the spring tabs on the rear of the mount are not strong enough. For heavy lenses I'd want a lens support on the rails. ( anybody else confirm this?)

Battery life is as expected - i.e not great but workable with enough batteries. I have 5 genuine Canon LP-E6's which display % or volts but the BM one has just a crude bar. 

My native M43 lenses - 12-35 2.8, 12-40 2.8 and 12-60 2.8-4 show massive barrel distortion at the widest settings due to the lack of in camera correction but as it has a bigger sensor than standard M43 you do get a significantly wider FOV as a result. I can correct distortion in Resolve fairly easily so it's not a deal breaker but it's quite distracting when shooting to see this amount of distortion. CA is also present on some lenses which can be fixed in post but is more fiddly to do so I'll be choosing my M43 lenses for this carefully.

Tap to focus works well enough but focus assist ( peaking) is very good and much more accurate than on the GH5.

WB function is great as you can just point at a grey card and push to set without digging down into a menu. ( a proper video camera feature)

I've got 128gb Cfast and V90 cards but they don't hold much footage so I reckon a 1TB ext USB-C drive is a must for serious use and a lot cheaper!

The screen is good but pretty unusable outside - it's just crying out for a hood or loupe. I'll probably bodge up a cardboard hood for now until Zacuto or Kinotehnik start making them.

I've only done a few image tests but so far compared to the GH5 it looks like it has colour aliasing on fine edges and is slightly softer. This was to be expected from a non downsampled sensor with no in-camera sharpening or NR but I'm not expecting these issues to be a problem. DR looks to be noticeably but not dramatically better but more testing needed although I don't doubt the tests I've seen already showing a couple of stops advantage. 

It's pretty much as I expected and will be an addition to my GH5 but not a replacement - yet.

Coming tests will be ProRes vs RAW and what lenses work best. 

Oh and for the price it's an absolute steal esp when you get a free copy of Resolve Studio - it's just insane at this price point.

 

These are the comments I am expecting to see here. Really helpful, thanks.

The non-in camera corrections is a significant issue, as the camera seems less and less appropriate for run n gun. If you have to correct everything in post, this increases the post time significantly.

I am wondering if it is going to be fixed by a firmware update (supporting at least a few popular zoom lenses, like the Olympus 12-100mm I was considering), but it may not be possible at all (noone will give them the rights to do so).

Speedboosting a FF or APS-C lens should yield better results I guess.

Does IS/OIS works with this camera?

Why the monitor is unworkable outside? Is it too dim? I can only work with my Focus anyway, so it won't surprise me.

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My 0.64x speedbooster on the old Pocket is also not very tight, the lens with the booster can be rotated slightly around its axis. I wrote in support of Metabones and they sent me a replacement booster and it also did not sit tight. Then they sent me a new bayonet ring (camera side) for a booster with a tighter fit. But I have not tried it yet, I will put it when the Pocket 4K comes.

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1 hour ago, Shirozina said:

like the 18-35 a gap opens up at the top of the mount between the lens and body

This doesn’t happen for me with the Viltrox. There’s a little play, but less than there is on my GX80, and I don’t foresee it being a problem. 

28 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

If you have to correct everything in post, this increases the post time significantly

Maybe it’s because I’m using adapter lenses , but I’m having no problems with CA or distortion. 

I do have the cheap as chips MFT Meike 28mm f2.8 and that also works perfectly. Maybe wider, native lenses present a problem though

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19 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

These are the comments I am expecting to see here. Really helpful, thanks.

The non-in camera corrections is a significant issue, as the camera seems less and less appropriate for run n gun. If you have to correct everything in post, this increases the post time significantly.

I am wondering if it is going to be fixed by a firmware update (supporting at least a few popular zoom lenses, like the Olympus 12-100mm I was considering), but it may not be possible at all (noone will give them the rights to do so).

Speedboosting a FF or APS-C lens should yield better results I guess.

Does IS/OIS works with this camera?

Why the monitor is unworkable outside? Is it too dim? I can only work with my Focus anyway, so it won't surprise me.

I'd worry about the amount of native distortion on a high range lens like the 12-100. Also the distortion gets less away from the wide setting so it's not a big problem in all situations. For a 'cinema' camera I'd rather do all corrections in post to be honest and I can't see why BM can't adopt the same idea as a lot of RAW apps like Adobe RAW and C1 and have their own lens correction profiles that you can apply in post or have a feature where you can calibrate your own lenses and save these for use.

I've tested the Viltrox .71 and 18-35 and it's OK unless you are shooting architecture.

Lens IOS on my 12-35 and 35-100 lumix lenses works but it's not massivley effective and I don't consider this a handheld camera - it will be on a tripod for my use.

The monitor is just not bright enough and also the screen is highly reflective so outside use is problematic without a hood or Loupe.

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6 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Does IS/OIS works with this camera?

Why the monitor is unworkable outside? Is it too dim? I can only work with my Focus anyway, so it won't surprise me.

It detects if a lens has it and switches it on automatically, though you can switch it off in the menu and you'll need it because.....

The monitor.

The issue with the monitor, for me, is the lack of a tilt as much as the quality of it. 

If you want to shoot handheld with it, its quite a lump to hold up and front of you at eye level and the bigger screen is actually a drawback here as you'll be holding it slightly further away.

It means its not only uncomfortable but obviously inherently less stable.

With a tilt mechanism on the screen, you'd be able to cradle it at least which would make it far more viable.

I honestly do think that we will see a raft of 5" loupes appear on the market soon to address this as giving you that point of contact will make a huge difference.

Its a bit of a perfect negative storm really of form factor, fixed screen and no IBIS but it is what it is and I'm sure workarounds will come but, for me at least, an EVF is going to be the way to go.

It would be nice to actually have an option to switch the monitor off totally if you are using an EVF as its pretty superfluous at that point and anything that reduces power consumption and heat generation on this camera would be welcome.

 

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3 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

This doesn’t happen for me with the Viltrox. There’s a little play, but less than there is on my GX80, and I don’t foresee it being a problem. 

Maybe it’s because I’m using adapter lenses , but I’m having no problems with CA or distortion. 

I do have the cheap as chips MFT Meike 28mm f2.8 and that also works perfectly. Maybe wider, native lenses present a problem though

Viltrox QC seems to be quite variable on their mounts. I have both the speed booster and non speed booster versions and one is tighter than the other. My first non speedbooster version was so tight I couldn't mount some lenses on it ( it went in the bin). All native M43 lenses rely on in camera correction for distortion and CA so this shouldn't be a problem for non native lenses. Again the term 'cinema camera' tends to mean it's not going to do much other than give you whats on the sensor and nothing else. 

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The first 0.64x metabones I had was very loose camera side but when I bought a replacement one, it had a gasket on the back and was much tighter. no issues so far on my Gh5 or Pocket 4k. It's disappointing how hit-or-miss metabones tolerances seem to be, especially for the price of the adapter. I also had to adjust infinity focus on all 3 metabones adapters I've had previously.

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36 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

The first 0.64x metabones I had was very loose camera side but when I bought a replacement one, it had a gasket on the back and was much tighter. no issues so far on my Gh5 or Pocket 4k. It's disappointing how hit-or-miss metabones tolerances seem to be, especially for the price of the adapter. I also had to adjust infinity focus on all 3 metabones adapters I've had previously.

Same here with metabones - all 4 of mine needed adjusting. The culprit seems to be the rear mount's inner surface which is roughly machined and either needs shimming or further machining/grinding to get the correct thickness and flatness. The body itself is very well made as is the lens flange.

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4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

It detects if a lens has it and switches it on automatically, though you can switch it off in the menu and you'll need it because.....

The monitor.

The issue with the monitor, for me, is the lack of a tilt as much as the quality of it. 

If you want to shoot handheld with it, its quite a lump to hold up and front of you at eye level and the bigger screen is actually a drawback here as you'll be holding it slightly further away.

It means its not only uncomfortable but obviously inherently less stable.

With a tilt mechanism on the screen, you'd be able to cradle it at least which would make it far more viable.

I honestly do think that we will see a raft of 5" loupes appear on the market soon to address this as giving you that point of contact will make a huge difference.

Its a bit of a perfect negative storm really of form factor, fixed screen and no IBIS but it is what it is and I'm sure workarounds will come but, for me at least, an EVF is going to be the way to go.

It would be nice to actually have an option to switch the monitor off totally if you are using an EVF as its pretty superfluous at that point and anything that reduces power consumption and heat generation on this camera would be welcome.

Bit worried about the screen really.

As it's a touch screen, a loupe is going to disable a lot of the menus and controls. There is no d-pad or joystick. Is it possible to navigate the menus without the touch screen?

I've heard people describe the screen as "good"... For me a "good screen" is one you can actually see. If it goes invisible outdoors and you can't tilt it, it's not a good screen :)

Blackmagic have the guts of a great cinema camera here - and the good workflow to go with it (Resolve). Why could they not have spent more than 5 minutes on the body design? Just basic common sense stuff...

1. With such a large body and high power requirements, why only have room for one battery? Why not have a vertical grip? With it being a Canon fit, I wonder if any of the Canon DSLR vertical battery grips fit? Why not use a 1D X size battery under the base?

2. Screen should have been articulated... surely

3. The hotshoe should have had contacts for a slot-in EVF - pretty sure Olympus has one they could have made it compatible with, powered by the cam.

4. Not talking about adding too much cost or complexity here, just the basics... Like if you have a battery door, make sure it stays shut properly?!

5. They are on their 4th generation of camera now... So no excuses for badly thought out half baked solutions

6. Do a $2500 version next. Use the classic slim Sony NEX 7 form factor - twin dials, corner EVF, tilting screen, slim body, IBIS, power efficient processor, XQD card slot, lighter, that would be a major winner.

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