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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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2 hours ago, DBounce said:

Interesting point, I wonder if we're will see an update that will allow for 4K @120 fps 10 bit for the GH5S? That would be nice to see. 

In order for the GH5s to do that, it would need to have the proper cooling for it and it would require that the HEVC/h.264 decoder can encode fast enough.

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My dear erstwhile member can you please stop attacking John Brawley now. I have long since given up on camera forum arguments so might not be completely up on who is right and who is wrong-evil /

I like the pictures. A lot.  This camera will probably replace the micro cinema camera for me as it’s not much bigger and is much easier to work with.  I didn’t feel as strongly about the 4K

What a shame. Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat t

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Do we really and truely honestly all believe that the exact same sensor is being used in these cameras ? The X7, E2, GHx, P4k...

It’s a rhetorical question.  Which means I know the answer I’m just asking it here publicly...

And why does it even matter.  Even if they ARE the exact same sensor. Every camera manufacturer will get different results and we learn NOTHING from these kinds of theoretical sensor discussions. Look at the previously mentioned CIon / BMD 4K / Aperture images.  Are they the same ?  Look at digital Bolex, who used the KAF / KODAK senors.  Are they the same images as the Ikonoscope / Leica / Olympus E series cameras that also used the same sensor family ? 

Just because they share the same sensor or sensor linage or it comes form the same factory, it’s almost meaningless because the company making the images form that sensor have to do so much customising, calibrating and processing of the image, it becomes irrelevant other than the specs we already know...

Let’s just look at the pictures instead of obsessing over the specs....

JB 

 

 

 

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As much as two cameras with the same sensor doesn't indicate that the images will look the same, you can generally get an idea of what dynamic range is like.

Camera manufacturers aren't stupid these days and if there was a way to squeeze out more DR out of the sensor they'd likely all be using it. Color science is another issue entirely.

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16 minutes ago, Savannah Miller said:

you can generally get an idea of what dynamic range is like.

Disagree. The chips added by the camera manu determine how well the signal is processed: FPN removal and other denoising implementations determine how many usable stops a camera has.

camera =/= only sensor

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27 minutes ago, andrgl said:

Disagree. The chips added by the camera manu determine how well the signal is processed: FPN removal and other denoising implementations determine how many usable stops a camera has.

camera =/= only sensor

That's true.  But you get a general idea of how much there is and the distribution of shadow/highlight DR.  Some cameras may have more FPN than others, but you can lift up the shadows and at least see what's there.

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2 hours ago, Savannah Miller said:

I don't know if i believe that though as color is also determined by the sensor too.  It's not like they'll magically get good colors similar to the dual-gain 4.6K just by using "Gen4 color science."

This makes me wonder what the architecture of 'colour science' is inside a camera.

Does anyone know exactly how sensors are implemented?

I figure that it could be one of these two scenarios:

Scenario 1: Sensor gives RAW readout -> image is processed according to colour profile / image settings / codec -> file is output

Scenario 2: Sensor is configured to give 'tuned' RAW readout -> image is processed according to colour profile / image settings / codec -> file is output

If we look at what Magic Lantern does for Canon, the RAW files look quite Canon-ish.  Does that mean that scenario 2 is the case?  My impression is that making a sensor that can get 'nice skin tones' by changing the RAW electro-chemical properties of the photo sites would be almost impossible but maybe I'm wrong.

Either way there's pretty powerful options for adjusting the image, so they've got a fighting chance of doing an impressive job matching them.

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Scenario 2 is correct because sensors on their own have levels of customization.  On top of that, things like Blackshading and cooling further make a difference in the noise and dynamic range of the sensor.  Color science and quality of the image is also subjectively chosen, and I believe the dual-gain sensors naturally have better color due to the higher bit-depth. I could be completely wrong about the dual-gain sensors having nicer color, but that could be the reason the Alexa has always been ahead of RED in that area.

Either way, the FGPA does play a role in color science.

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2 hours ago, Savannah Miller said:

Scenario 2 is correct because sensors on their own have levels of customization.  On top of that, things like Blackshading and cooling further make a difference in the noise and dynamic range of the sensor.  Color science and quality of the image is also subjectively chosen, and I believe the dual-gain sensors naturally have better color due to the higher bit-depth. I could be completely wrong about the dual-gain sensors having nicer color, but that could be the reason the Alexa has always been ahead of RED in that area.

Either way, the FGPA does play a role in color science.

Cool.  

The more control they have over these things and the better they are at colour the closer they should be able to get in matching colours between cameras with different sensors.

With tools like Resolve, if you have time and some dedication you should be able to get the look you want from most cameras these days.  Matching in a multi-camera setup requires a higher skill level, but I've seen youngsters on YT match many cameras passably well in a very short period of time, using only the LGG controls, and if you're willing to dive into colour checkers you can dial things in pretty quickly if you do a bit of homework about how the colours differ beforehand. 

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18 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Stores here are reporting stock is expected first week of next month.

Just in time for my birthday then. ?  Would've been nice to see some footage/reviews before ordering though...

Just their past timeline for September from NAB back 4 months now, I guess.

Unfortunately, this won't happen, I'm afraid.

Or we had already seen the first footage so far.

Keep the hype up until a new update late August or even along September... with the first bytes of imagerie to come then, I bet.

: -)

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Q3 was already very vague. So I'm sorta hoping they aimed for last month with it being pushed back realistically to september.

Sure hope they are not going to push it beyond that. There's only this one place I could find that expects stock at distributor to come '09.11.2018'... now that would... be a bummer. So I'm hoping for BM and these other stores to come through with their scheduled plans... Q3 should also be the time the Atomos V starts shipping. Next month should be exciting. But, I know better than to get my hopes up, so I guess we'll just wait and see.

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On 8/7/2018 at 9:49 AM, Savannah Miller said:

I don't know if i believe that though as color is also determined by the sensor too.  It's not like they'll magically get good colors similar to the dual-gain 4.6K just by using "Gen4 color science."

Pocket 4K and UMP on Gen 4 match colour-wise very well IMHO.

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