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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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Well my comment about the C200 wasn’t meant as a suggestion to replace anything on network television. I merely was stating that according to advertised specs, Savannah Miller was wrong when he/she stated that the Ursa has more dynamic range. 

Honestly, the fact that we’re even discussing sub $10,000 cameras on a network television show is amazing. And the fact that JB can illustrate to his directors and producers that an Ursa Pro and BMMCC are viable tools against an Alexa Mini is a credit to what BM has done.

There’s also the story about the director of Lights Out sneaking off set, at lunch, with an actor to get some pick up shots with his BMPCC. In the editing room, the editor had no idea those shots weren’t from an Alexa.

With that being said, I would assume the vast majority of Ursa Pro users aren’t shooting network television or Hollywood movies with it. So at the price point, there are other options that may be more suitable and preferable to those shooters. I’d choose a C200 over an Ursa Pro for the type of stuff I do. But I’d also choose a 5D3 over the P4K and in all honesty, since I don’t need the 4K, I’d choose the Micro over the P4K as well. I originally thought the M4/3 sensor was a huge benefit, but since I don’t use a speedbooster, I’d rather have the option to shoot with vintage c-mount lenses that I already own.

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My dear erstwhile member can you please stop attacking John Brawley now. I have long since given up on camera forum arguments so might not be completely up on who is right and who is wrong-evil /

I like the pictures. A lot.  This camera will probably replace the micro cinema camera for me as it’s not much bigger and is much easier to work with.  I didn’t feel as strongly about the 4K

What a shame. Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat t

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1 hour ago, John Brawley said:

You’d think so.....

Ive never been able to get any kinefininty camera to even test.

JB

I was offered a test recently but didn't have the time. Could put you in touch? Only problem is I think the distributor are based in Berlin.

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According to advertised specs, the Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro claims 15 stops of dynamic range.  The C200 claims 13, and they advertise that when shooting RAW lite you can produce up to 15 stops of dynamic range.  That sounds more like when RED claims such ludicrous 16.5+ stops of DR.  Sure it's all there if you frame-average 10+ frames together, denoise and crank up your ISO to 512,000.  

1 hour ago, John Brawley said:

You’d think so.....

Ive never been able to get any kinefininty camera to even test.

JB

I don't think you're missing out on anything.

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4 hours ago, John Brawley said:

You’d think so.....

Ive never been able to get any kinefininty camera to even test.

JB

I found it interesting that Geoff Boyle managed to get not one but two Kinefinity cameras for his shoot out comparison!

 

4 hours ago, mercer said:

With that being said, I would assume the vast majority of Ursa Pro users aren’t shooting network television or Hollywood movies with it. So at the price point, there are other options that may be more suitable and preferable to those shooters. I’d choose a C200 over an Ursa Pro for the type of stuff I do. But I’d also choose a 5D3 over the P4K and in all honesty, since I don’t need the 4K, I’d choose the Micro over the P4K as well. I originally thought the M4/3 sensor was a huge benefit, but since I don’t use a speedbooster, I’d rather have the option to shoot with vintage c-mount lenses that I already own.

Yeah I've been trying to explain to a friend that although the UMP is very very nice, he'd get more work if he  owned the very popular FS7 or a F5, as that would make more financial sense in that you'd get hired more. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Yeah I've been trying to explain to a friend that although the UMP is very very nice, he'd get more work if he  owned the very popular FS7 or a F5, as that would make more financial sense in that you'd get hired more

Yup, I’m in a similar situation with a DSLR vs a C100. For only a little more I can get the C100 and although it’s probably overkill for the jobs I am looking to get, in the long run, it should be easier to market myself with it.

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4 hours ago, John Brawley said:

And apparently the results are so bad he didn’t want to post them because he thought something was wrong. 

JB

The problem with the Terra 4K is they claim 14 stops of DR and there just isn't that much. Even if you use the ridiculous Phil Holland method of measuring DR, it's just not there.  I understand these are all subjective claims and you should test for yourself, but it's one thing to just flat out lie about how much DR a camera has.  12 and 14 are not the same number.

But I believe Geoff Boyle had issues with the files in Post so he didn't want to give them a bad rep yet.

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Saying the GH5 is a better sports camera than the a7 III would be an outright lie.

On the other hand, just like measuring ISO, there are a dozen different methods for determining dynamic range, and I wouldn’t accuse a manufacturer of fibbing unless I could prove intent.

Besides which, 12 stops is still respectable in my book.

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That's true.  DR is subjective, but if you shoot raw and push around the files, you can generally see how much is there.  With the Terra 6K they claimed 13 stops and then 16 stops in "golden 3K mode."  There's barely a discernable difference between the two modes.

I saw some raw samples of Terra 4K and no matter how much you push around the images or denoise, the DR is not there..

And on top of that, they at least are not consistent in how they measure these numbers across their different sensors. They just want to put up big numbers to impress everyone.

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All this talk of a bazillion stops of DR, I'm reminded of the minor miracle that these manufacturers have managed to accomplish..

10 stops of dynamic range means that in comparison to the smallest amount of light they can distinguish, the brightest light it can distinguish is 1024x.  That doesn't sound like much, but 12 stops is 4096x, 14 stops is 16384x, and 16 stops would be 65535x!!!!

Even the claimed 13 stops for the Pocket 4K is 8192x..  that's huge!

We really are spoiled ???

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Dynamic range is largely determined by how tolerant one is to noise. Certainty the Canon C200 can deliver the dynamic range that was promised, but part of that may live in the noise. That said,  even working within the usable range, it does not lack for dynamic range, and that is not something I would say of most cameras that I have worked with.  

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17 hours ago, mercer said:

Yup, I’m in a similar situation with a DSLR vs a C100. For only a little more I can get the C100 and although it’s probably overkill for the jobs I am looking to get, in the long run, it should be easier to market myself with it.

This would have been true a couple of years ago or more, it made more sense to get a C100. 
But as "4K" gets wanted more and more, even on low end jobs, then there is a possibility the C100 might hold you back more in getting work than say even having a Panasonic GH4 would help you. Might wash out and be a coin flip as to which is better. 

48 minutes ago, Savannah Miller said:

The real miracle was the Kinefinity Terra 5K was supposed to be a dual-gain 5K sensor with switchable rolling and global shutter.  Where were they getting that sensor from?  And how were they able to cool it properly to fit it inside of one of their Terra bodies?

Well it never got sold, for basically the same kind of reasons BMD had, the benefits of having global/rolling as an option wasn't worth it for the trade offs. 

 

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4 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

But as "4K" gets wanted more and more, even on low end jobs, then there is a possibility the C100 might hold you back more in getting work than say even having a Panasonic GH4 would help you. Might wash out and be a coin flip as to which is better. 

He should get both. C100 to look like a pro in front of clients. Just keep it turned off and use GH5 to do the actual shooting :)

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