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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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4 hours ago, John Brawley said:

You’d think so.....

Ive never been able to get any kinefininty camera to even test.

JB

I found it interesting that Geoff Boyle managed to get not one but two Kinefinity cameras for his shoot out comparison!

 

4 hours ago, mercer said:

With that being said, I would assume the vast majority of Ursa Pro users aren’t shooting network television or Hollywood movies with it. So at the price point, there are other options that may be more suitable and preferable to those shooters. I’d choose a C200 over an Ursa Pro for the type of stuff I do. But I’d also choose a 5D3 over the P4K and in all honesty, since I don’t need the 4K, I’d choose the Micro over the P4K as well. I originally thought the M4/3 sensor was a huge benefit, but since I don’t use a speedbooster, I’d rather have the option to shoot with vintage c-mount lenses that I already own.

Yeah I've been trying to explain to a friend that although the UMP is very very nice, he'd get more work if he  owned the very popular FS7 or a F5, as that would make more financial sense in that you'd get hired more. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Yeah I've been trying to explain to a friend that although the UMP is very very nice, he'd get more work if he  owned the very popular FS7 or a F5, as that would make more financial sense in that you'd get hired more

Yup, I’m in a similar situation with a DSLR vs a C100. For only a little more I can get the C100 and although it’s probably overkill for the jobs I am looking to get, in the long run, it should be easier to market myself with it.

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4 hours ago, John Brawley said:

And apparently the results are so bad he didn’t want to post them because he thought something was wrong. 

JB

The problem with the Terra 4K is they claim 14 stops of DR and there just isn't that much. Even if you use the ridiculous Phil Holland method of measuring DR, it's just not there.  I understand these are all subjective claims and you should test for yourself, but it's one thing to just flat out lie about how much DR a camera has.  12 and 14 are not the same number.

But I believe Geoff Boyle had issues with the files in Post so he didn't want to give them a bad rep yet.

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Saying the GH5 is a better sports camera than the a7 III would be an outright lie.

On the other hand, just like measuring ISO, there are a dozen different methods for determining dynamic range, and I wouldn’t accuse a manufacturer of fibbing unless I could prove intent.

Besides which, 12 stops is still respectable in my book.

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That's true.  DR is subjective, but if you shoot raw and push around the files, you can generally see how much is there.  With the Terra 6K they claimed 13 stops and then 16 stops in "golden 3K mode."  There's barely a discernable difference between the two modes.

I saw some raw samples of Terra 4K and no matter how much you push around the images or denoise, the DR is not there..

And on top of that, they at least are not consistent in how they measure these numbers across their different sensors. They just want to put up big numbers to impress everyone.

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All this talk of a bazillion stops of DR, I'm reminded of the minor miracle that these manufacturers have managed to accomplish..

10 stops of dynamic range means that in comparison to the smallest amount of light they can distinguish, the brightest light it can distinguish is 1024x.  That doesn't sound like much, but 12 stops is 4096x, 14 stops is 16384x, and 16 stops would be 65535x!!!!

Even the claimed 13 stops for the Pocket 4K is 8192x..  that's huge!

We really are spoiled 🙃🙂😁

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The real miracle was the Kinefinity Terra 5K was supposed to be a dual-gain 5K sensor with switchable rolling and global shutter.  Where were they getting that sensor from?  And how were they able to cool it properly to fit it inside of one of their Terra bodies?

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Dynamic range is largely determined by how tolerant one is to noise. Certainty the Canon C200 can deliver the dynamic range that was promised, but part of that may live in the noise. That said,  even working within the usable range, it does not lack for dynamic range, and that is not something I would say of most cameras that I have worked with.  

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17 hours ago, mercer said:

Yup, I’m in a similar situation with a DSLR vs a C100. For only a little more I can get the C100 and although it’s probably overkill for the jobs I am looking to get, in the long run, it should be easier to market myself with it.

This would have been true a couple of years ago or more, it made more sense to get a C100. 
But as "4K" gets wanted more and more, even on low end jobs, then there is a possibility the C100 might hold you back more in getting work than say even having a Panasonic GH4 would help you. Might wash out and be a coin flip as to which is better. 

48 minutes ago, Savannah Miller said:

The real miracle was the Kinefinity Terra 5K was supposed to be a dual-gain 5K sensor with switchable rolling and global shutter.  Where were they getting that sensor from?  And how were they able to cool it properly to fit it inside of one of their Terra bodies?

Well it never got sold, for basically the same kind of reasons BMD had, the benefits of having global/rolling as an option wasn't worth it for the trade offs. 

 

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4 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

But as "4K" gets wanted more and more, even on low end jobs, then there is a possibility the C100 might hold you back more in getting work than say even having a Panasonic GH4 would help you. Might wash out and be a coin flip as to which is better. 

He should get both. C100 to look like a pro in front of clients. Just keep it turned off and use GH5 to do the actual shooting :)

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29 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

He should get both. C100 to look like a pro in front of clients. Just keep it turned off and use GH5 to do the actual shooting :)

If that is the plan then he could achieve the same result with an AF100/FS100 for a fraction of the cost!

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2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

This would have been true a couple of years ago or more, it made more sense to get a C100. 
But as "4K" gets wanted more and more, even on low end jobs, then there is a possibility the C100 might hold you back more in getting work than say even having a Panasonic GH4 would help you. Might wash out and be a coin flip as to which is better. 

I work in the trade show industry and when I see a videographer on the show floor, 6 out of 10 times they have a Canon DSLR. 3 out of 10 times they have a C100 and once in a while you see a Sony. I did see a shooter with a BMPCC once. But if 1080p Canon footage is good enough for Fortune 500 companies, surely 1080p, downscaled from 4K, in the C100 is plenty good enough for some real estate videos.

But I can see how the market is trending that way and 4K will probably be more important for the lower end since the target audience is yearning for content to watch on their shiny new TVs. But I don’t want to make a career out of this, I’m just looking to make some extra cash to fund some short films and a week down the shore. 

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Ah, the old GoPro inside an old shoulder mount ENG camera routine ;)

photo-41-600x450.jpg.296aa560f23a7d454c1c29fef77bf395.jpg

 

Hahaha, maybe I should start looking for a broken Alexa then. With some Alexa conversion LUTS and the GH5 innards, I could shoot some Hollywood films. 

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3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Well it never got sold, for basically the same kind of reasons BMD had, the benefits of having global/rolling as an option wasn't worth it for the trade offs. 

 

I don’t think it ever even got made, let alone sold.  I think they only announced it.

It’s worth reading the very interesting article Andrew posted about how Nikon sensors get made..I would hope it may change our view of the idiotic phrase “off the shelf sensor”.... because no sensor is off the shelf....

JB

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43 minutes ago, mercer said:

Hahaha, maybe I should start looking for a broken Alexa then. With some Alexa conversion LUTS and the GH5 innards, I could shoot some Hollywood films. 

This is currently £50 on eBay.

I reckon you could easily graft the BM micro cinema camera in there ;)

s-l1600.thumb.jpg.f50a23a970edbda13d07b9930c159330.jpg

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