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Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

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45 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

And you can grade the a6500 as much as you want, it will still look like the consumer camera that it is

Transforming a ordinary farm horse into a racehorse will not work, even if you put him on a diet. That's true.

But the crucial question is, if the audience outside of a cinema theatre and the 200% punch-in obsessed gear heads universe, would even notice the difference between the two animals. Probably not.

There are people out there, very sad about the fact, that the IQ of an expensive production/cinema camera doesn't differ so much as it should from much cheaper "prosumer" cameras, when it comes to what you see nowadays on ordinary PC-displays, TVs, smartphones, etc. No need to justify horrendous expenses for ordinary (=non Hollywood) footage delivery. It's fine. But it is NOT a necessity.

Disclaimer: If heavy keying, VFX, extreme grading etc. needed, there would be a completely different matter.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Well if the purpose of this cam is to compete with the GH5 i'm afraid they must try again: 

-photo quality in good light: about the same, given 20vs24 mp is not that much of a difference. maybe a little advantace in bit depht, but that affect only a small percentage of photos.

-video quality: gh5 wins in every departmen except maybe extreme low light

-grip: gh5 wins

-controls: gh5 wins

-connectivity: gh5 wins

-recording time, overheating, continuous rec: gh5 is king

-lenses: gh5 wins with leica and olympus pro, subjiective i know but that's my preference.

-extreme low light and autofocus may be the only two areas where fuji could have an advantage.

That doesen't seem like a great attemps to compete. IMO they shuld've done something more both in video and in photo department: more mpixel, better body, internal ND filter maybe or something else useful other manufacturer don't have.

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For me,

-photo quality in good light: huge advantage Fuji.

-video quality: tomato tomato in most scenarios.

-grip: haven't held the Fuji. Where did you try it? @etidona

-controls: Fuji wins

-connectivity: dont even care but in my experience Fuji have a better track record.

-recording time, overheating, continuous rec: GH5.

-lenses: Fuji kills it.

-extreme low light and autofocus are also segments where the Fuji might come up ahead. But none of us know yet.

That seem like a great attemp to compete. 

Time will tell.

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54 minutes ago, etidona said:

Well if the purpose of this cam is to compete with the GH5 i'm afraid they must try again: 

I dont think it is designed to compete with a GH5. I think it is a genuine 'hybrid' camera (for those that shoot 60%+ stills). By that I mean it is a no compromise stills camera (as good as the XT-2) that shoots excellent video. It competes with the a6500 or a7riii rather than an A7sii/iii in the Sony world. 

The GH5 isnt a true 'hybrid' camera in my world view (and the GH5s far less) on the basis that it is oversized compared to its sensor and overpriced compared to its sensor for stills - it is bigger and heavier than an A7riii that has a 4x larger sensor. Dont get me wrong. The GH5 is probably the best videocentric ILC on the market but it isnt really a 'hybrid'.

How does it stack up against the A6500?

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@Yurolov does the footage I sent you look like a consumer camera ? And yes that is exactly what  im saying. The cinema camera SLOG will intercut with the consumer SLOG. You ever see an A - B side by side test in a theatre ? No. Plenty of movies have even thrown in Gopro footage for certain shots and the audience will not notice. And I find it funny that people like you talk real loud on these forums with no footage and real world experience to support any of your claims. I have plenty real world experience and probably graded more footage than you have shot. I am currently shooting in 14bit with a Canon 5D mark iii and im telling you your 8 bit gripes really aint that serious

4 hours ago, Arikhan said:

Transforming a ordinary farm horse into a racehorse will not work, even if you put him on a diet. That's true.

But the crucial question is, if the audience outside of a cinema theatre and the 200% punch-in obsessed gear heads universe, would even notice the difference between the two animals. Probably not.

The audience will not notice and we are playing ourselves if we think we do. The movie Tangerine was shot on an iPhone and became a hit on Netflix. 8 bit,10bit, 12 & 14 bit at the end of the day the consumer only cares about the aesthetic and for those that have actually been in a high end theatre for a screening knows that most modern day footage looks good on it. Wasn’t it Philip Bloom who DP’d Red Tails which was shot with a stock canon 5d mark iii / mark ii ? It looked amazing on the big screen so it blows  me away when I hear how these 8 bit cameras and this format that has been widely used for years is suddenly this dinosaur people are making it out to be. I am tired of talking about these things on forums because it is now becoming useless to my personal education and development of my own work.

anyway that Fuji color science has been sought after and emulated by so many. I just payed $100 for some Mastin Labs presets that claim its modelled after real Fuji 400h film. Filmconvert has a bunch of LUTs for Fuji as does visioncolor. So I ask myself why not just buy a fuji camera and then here comes the x-h1 in all its glory giving us real Fuji color from a 14bit sensor. Idk how people aren’t seeing how great this can be ?

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2 hours ago, etidona said:

Well if the purpose of this cam is to compete with the GH5 i'm afraid they must try again: 

-photo quality in good light: about the same, given 20vs24 mp is not that much of a difference. maybe a little advantace in bit depht, but that affect only a small percentage of photos.

-video quality: gh5 wins in every departmen except maybe extreme low light

-grip: gh5 wins

-controls: gh5 wins

-connectivity: gh5 wins

-recording time, overheating, continuous rec: gh5 is king

-lenses: gh5 wins with leica and olympus pro, subjiective i know but that's my preference.

-extreme low light and autofocus may be the only two areas where fuji could have an advantage.

That doesen't seem like a great attemps to compete. IMO they shuld've done something more both in video and in photo department: more mpixel, better body, internal ND filter maybe or something else useful other manufacturer don't have.

As others, I have to disagree. The photo quality of the X-T2 is way ahead of the GH5, so will be the X-H1

video quality? depends on what you want. I wouldn't declare a winner

Grip? If the X-H1 has the same as the GFX I'd say that might be one of the best grips ever. But people have different preferences

Controls: Again, different preferences.

 

But overall I think the GH5 is a more videocentric camera, while the X-H1 is aimed at photographers who also do video work. 

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Are the majority of Fuji lenses good for video? My girlfriend shoots on an X-T1 and I noticed when I took a picture with the 35mm f2 WR that it breathes like crazy.

I'm definitely intrigued by the X-H1 because we're kicking around the idea of switching to the same camera system to save weight for travelling.

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AF lenses aren’t ideal for rack focus no matter the system. I believe Fuji made their two MK cine zooms for the X-H1 and subsequent video-oriented X-mount bodies. But they’re pricey... An economical alternative are the Veydras, and best of all, they’re compatible with Sony E-mount and MFT as well.

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12 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

  12 hours ago,  kidzrevil said: and for the guys that think 8bit cameras are crap they are forgetting the image comes from a 14bit sensor. You gotta be crazy if you think these Fuji colors look unacceptable for client work. I need to meet these peoples clients...spielberg must be one of them ?

2

i always find it quite amusing that some people may think a camera that doesn't shoot 10-bit, record in 4K or have IBIS is obsolete/worthless for pro work.

FWIW i've shot professional work for clients listed on the NYSE with 5D3, D750, C100, A7S & XT2.. all 8-bit cameras. I can assure none of those clients have probably ever heard of 8bit/10bit/420/422/Rec709/Rec2020 etc.. only in these specialized forums are they relevant and up for debate.. 

i'll also add i've been shooting professionally across the globe with the XT2 for over a year and never have my clients given me so much praise on IQ.

Now the XT2 is far from perfect, and i'll still rent BMDs, FS7s & REDs for bigger projects but it's an amazing little camera and imo the best SOOC image.

GH5/GH5S is certainly best bang for buck right now but M43 sensors don't fit my aesthetic and i much prefer the native lens selection from Fuji.

I'm now very excited about X-H1, will definitely upgrade to it..

7 hours ago, jonpais said:

i just did a test with my X-T2. With a newly charged battery, the camera was able to record two ten-minute clips and one four-minute clip in succession before stopping recording to avoid overheating. The battery still has tons of juice remaining - in fact only one of the five bars has disappeared, as far as I can tell. I say as far as I can tell because all of the information in the display is too small to be read by human eyes. I sincerely hope the X-H1 has larger icons.

The booster grip is an absolute requirement for XT2.. it gives you the audio input & boosts recording time and EVF refresh rate etc..

Now concerning the display information/icons being too small, XH1 will indeed make things a lot better thanks to its top "sub monitor" that will include a customizable movie mode allowing clear/fast top view of all crucial information including remaining recording time etc..

 

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@Django AGREED !! This is exactly what im saying. What client have these people sat with that went “ugh....why isn’t it in Rec2020 color space ? We could never sell these cupcakes now ! Call marketing we need to book another videographer. Make sure the next guy shoots 10bit HDR” 

I want to know what project they shot that made a client go “don’t book this guy again that footage clearly wasn’t in 10 bit” lmao but its easy to make these claims when your only “client” is an internet message board

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@kidzrevil For the record, I've never said that a camera was shite because it didn't shoot 10-bit. What I did say is that every single authority without exception says that 10-bit is required for shooting HDR, which as you know, is something I'm very interested in doing. And I have questioned Sony's decision not to include 10-bit on a camera that shoots HLG HDR video. But would I ever dream of saying the a7RIII is a miserable camera? No! 

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Wasn’t talking about your comments. Didn’t see the one in question that you are talking about tbh I will look through the thread for it.

My new mantra is if it looks good why question it ? I settled on the fact that these people are engineers and they know things about cameras and color spaces we need years of education to understand. However sony found out how to get 8bit HDR to work is amazing and just another sign of whats possible when you hire great engineers. They make hdtv’s so im sure they knew a long time ago how to get hdr to work in an 8 bit color space @jonpais

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@jonpais FYI those comments were directed towards this member, not you:

13 hours ago, bwhitz said:

So... in other words... another junk camera that can't really be used on any client facing work or serious projects. Wonderfull. :expressionless:

 

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1 minute ago, kidzrevil said:

Wasn’t talking about your comments. Didn’t see the one in question that you are talking about tbh I will look through the thread for it.

My new mantra is if it looks good why question it ? I settled on the fact that these people are engineers and they know things about cameras and color spaces we need years of education to understand. However sony found out how to get 8bit HDR to work is amazing and just another sign of whats possible when you hire great engineers. @jonpais

Sorry, wasn't sure... no problem.

Just now, Django said:

@jonpais FYI those comments were directed towards this member, not you:

 

@Django cool, my misunderstanding. All's well.

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Very exited about this camera! If playing with curves keeps and supports that Fuji color magic, having good battery life, no overheating, awesome low light and exellent robust codec, this camera will raise my intention, as the XT2 with its image and especially colors had my curiousity. All for a price of the GH5, contendender, the Fuji color magic, lowlight cinemacamera. But image has to be workable/adjustable while maintaing its color magic!

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Everything I do is 8bit, but recently producers asked specifically for 10bit. First time they needed 2 "cheap" 10bit options, so we went GH5 with the 12-100 Olympus (I love this lens!), and second time we went Canon C (much bigger documentary production with Zeiss primes). I have the feeling we are going to been asked for 10 bit more, from now on. 

I, too would like to move to 10 bit, but it's a huge cost to upgrade my whole workflow, but from now on, I will have my mind to this. We'll see.

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9 hours ago, Yurolov said:

Of course you can say, but I use 10 bit and know how to use it - but then again neither are you shooting cinema. Because anyone shooting cinema isn't using these cameras.   

Ok, so you are saying slog 2 from their cinema camera range intercuts with the a6500 then? I just want to make sure I understand your argument here, cause that's what you said. I have owned the a6500 and I know what slog does to the camera. I also own cinema cameras and understand the difference between the two. To suggest that the difference between the two is stubbornness on the part of the end user is quite funny.

And you can grade the a6500 as much as you want, it will still look like the consumer camera that it is.

Your statement might have been true hell even 5, 6 years ago. There were huge differences between Cine and consumer cameras. Today other than Raw on the top end stuff, and now we can do that with a 4 year old Canon DSLR, the output in 1080p, even 4k is to the average person that watches is pretty minimal. It is because the Codec's have gotten Way better on them.

Yeah I will admit 8 bit is a little week, but that is all the Canon C500, C300, 1DC shot internal.  I would call those cameras Cine cameras. Big thing is they had great Codecs. Guess what a Panny GH5 has a great Codec and 10 bit internal. So I guess it is a Cine camera for hell, 1650 bucks brand new open box. A Sony a7s in Slog 2 I would argue can look like a Cine camera. Plenty of indie stuff done with them.

I would bet good money any of these good DP's of this era could make a feature movie with a lot of these cameras out today other than what Arikhan said, "heavy keying, VFX, extreme grading etc." Yeah we aren't doing green screen with a A6300 or a Transformers movie VFX, but for a lot of it I bet it could be done and parts of it is.

You don't really think they are putting Arri Alexa's in those cars that crash, or buildings that blow up. So they are intermixing what you call shit cameras in with "Cine" cameras and you probably can't tell the difference unless you edited it. Times have changed in the "consumer" industry and damn fast. If I was making these high end cameras I would be worried as hell from them. They are Not that far off now let along 3 years from now. I realize most are made by the same company but thy are not going to be able to get 60,000 dollars from them when you can buy a Sony A7s mk V for 3,200 dollars maybe 3 years from now. IF they put Raw in these cameras, game over. Now I know they are not putting Raw in a camera as thin as a Sony a7 series, but they are allowed to make them a little bigger. :grin:

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Nothing wrong with 8 bit image OOC, but I dare to say that 10 bit footage indeed have at least little bit more, or more+, options in post production treatment.

I like and am very excited with competition, and I can't understand why it is so hard to include 10 bit option as Panasonic did with GH5. But, being faced with pile of footages in pp that have to be matched, I'm very glad if I have 10 bit profile to work with...

It will be so nice if Fuji catch Panasonic from ergonomical and solidity wise side of work.

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4 hours ago, TARS said:

Are the majority of Fuji lenses good for video? My girlfriend shoots on an X-T1 and I noticed when I took a picture with the 35mm f2 WR that it breathes like crazy.

I'm definitely intrigued by the X-H1 because we're kicking around the idea of switching to the same camera system to save weight for travelling.

No. They are ok, but focus by wire isn't ideal in general. Most zooms breath, the primes are fine. Optical quality is very nice and they all offer a similar look. 

But Fuji will also release two cine lenses, the mk 18-55mm t/2.9 and the 50-135mm t/2.9 both of which are more or less parfocal with no focus breathing and offer a few other nice features.

And of course there are a lot of manual lenses you can use. And there are also Canon EF smartadapters as well as a EF smart speedbooster coming in the near future so I would say there are more than enough lenses available. 

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On this 8-bit vs 10-bit thing, I recall when I almost was crucified :D in a thread two years and a half ago only because I had tried to justify 8-bit is nothing but a spec. Others can count much more to the outcome.

Here is only to begin with:

To follow in the next pages. Have a good read! ;-)

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