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salim

NX2 rumors

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The NX1 is so responsive out on a shoot. Never had a snappier camera. The S zooms were state of the art. There is OIS + hardware accelerated warp stabilisation in-camera for handheld shots that are more locked down that 5 axis IBIS. You can even walk with it. When I hark back to my trip in Lisbon with it, got nothing but fond memories! The colour! The easy laidback operation! The insane resolution! Monitoring off an AMOLED right there in the street! Feels like a luxury living room not a shoot! It's super light and the pancake 30mm F2 is a bundle of fun. Loved Ed's new york films shot on the NX1 as well.

nx1-castle-702x394@2x.jpg

nx1-ship-4k-702x394@2x.jpg

When it came to some of the drawbacks, many of them turned out to be software related.

For example the dynamic range was fixed by remapping to 16-235.

Then the firmware update allowed you to do this in-camera and even raise the master pedestal black levels.

The blue-sky banding was related to certain transcoding methods for H.265. Again much better now.

And you can now edit it natively quite comfortably on a modest spec of machine!

The hack then came out on top of the firmware updates... and although the high bitrates in 4K don't make a huge difference, the very fact it happened at all was a miracle and no camera aside from the GH2/4/5 had a larger gang of hardcore enthusiasts around it, with hacking projects, dedicated sites and forums springing up all over.

Some aspects of the build quality is as good as the Leica SL, particularly the top panel LCD with sexy orange backlight and the seal on that, the finish around parts of the body is absolutely a class act.

It was way ahead of the time... way over people's heads... at a time when the NX range was lower-end heavy and too exposed to the market shift. Timing was just all wrong. The timing for an NX2 now however is just right. Although having said that the US stock market did just crash and there is a run on Bitcoin ;)

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
5 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Fuji has a whole lineup, no native fish eye though, no S workhorse, and inflated prices in most lenses.

Fuji has a stellar 16-55 and 50-140/2.8's (both sell used for about the same as the S zooms, they're easily found for under $1,000 US) and a slew of primes of various apertures and sizes. The 8-16mm and 200/2 are coming as well. The S 16-50 is only f/2 at 16mm, at least mine was, the second I touched the zoom ring it jumped to 2.8. Samsung was heading in the right direction with the NX1 and S lenses, but sadly we'll never know where it was going.

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NX1 was too ahead of the game, now we have hardware to can do x.265 like butter without transcording which will be more acceptable now.

 

I do like colour of Samsung camera more than Canon for the few months I owned NX1.

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Please let this rumor be true... I'm still using my beloved NX1 from early 2015.  It's seen better days but nothing else in the market hits the right compromises for me.  The rumors of this NX2 would be just what I'm looking for!  

Please Samsung, make it happen!

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So Samsung killed its camera line, then resurrect it as a kick-stand for the marketing campaign of its new flagship phone?..

Seems to be a lot of development cost for marketing, and I don't see how it would support the sales of a smartphone, what's the link? Personally I agree with some people here, they lost their credibility and I would not invest in the NX2 system if they are so volatile. It comes and go for no reasons or just to help smartphone sales. Um... 
That being said, more competition is always welcome and it would be a neat camera with adapters. We'll see.

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@Trek of Joy huge respect to Fuji and what they do. The thing is that while, as @Andrew Reid mentioned, NX1 has an amazing (under the right circumstance) dual IS (lens+DIS) while a Fuji combo with the 16-55 offers none of that. Also the S was less than 1000$/€/£ brand new. Also, there is no native fish eye. These 2 lenses, the 45mm 1.8th and the 12-24 are my most used lenses for pro work and the pancake 30mm/2f for everyday/carry around lens with the extremilly capable NX500.

Then the bodies

 Currently there is no Fuji camera reaching NX capabilities. No slow motion, crop in 4K, limited recording capabilities without an extra grip while the NX1 goes straight 78minutes in 1080p, no flagship touch capabilities etc etc I could go on and on. Fuji are great and all, I am always looking at them, especially for the good ultra wide zooms they have, I would love a 8-16mm/2f-2.8f stabilezed S lens, but sadly they do not.have the resources to compete. M43 will probably eat their share really soon.

Your hand must have been too heavy! I just looked on mine now and it is

16-20mm 2f,

20-23mm 2.2f,

24-32/33mm 2.5f and 2.8f until the end. Not bad for a slightly lighter and smaller lens that the non stabilized Fuji!

Also, the new X-A5 ia a lot worst camera than the NX500 with similar size and price, 3 full years later! Just look at the specs and laugh..

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Maybe all of us who have SOMEHOW lived without a talking refrigerator will now be rewarded ;)  I strongly predicted that Samsung would not give up on their cameras.  I was wrong, but not completely wrong because they still sell them.   And we must keep that in mind.  It's still speculation what's going on with their R&D and factory.  If Samsung is listening to all the passion for HDR around here,@jonpais I'm talking to you ;) then NX2 is on the way!  6K would greatly improve color texture in 4K HDR!

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5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

NX1 owners are a very satisfied bunch. I should know, I am one.

If they satisfy as many customers as they did the last time we know how things will end.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

They wouldn't do it for large volume sales.

They would do it for larger Galaxy S9 sales.

Marketing it as Exynos / 4K 120fps

Headlines all over the web... Then customer knows Exynos for the powerful chip it is, and associates the S9 camera with market leading camera specs.

Exynos is not sold in The United States, China, nor Japan.  So you can eliminate the largest consumer electronics countries from that unorthodox marketing campaign.  Remember CDMA=Snapdragon.

2 hours ago, salim said:

I see your point with this. Yes, there are niche users like Andrew and others here, who like the NX1. But for other users, the possibility of investing on something that might once again face a dead-end is a no go. So because of that, I think Samsung will have an uphill battle to get large enough buyers to buy this, for it to be justifiable. 

With Canon and Nikon lining up with their mirrorless camera, and Sony having a huge lead, I just don't see Samsung doing this, unless they can justify a secondary benefit to another product vertical. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

Samsung isn't about to re-enter the same space they abandoned a couple years ago with little/no chance of turning a profit.

Yeah it is basic marketing.  First you have to define your target market.  They were sloppy.  I guess they figured their camera takes pictures and shoots videos so they thought they would capture both markets.  In reality their market was a small niche.

And I warned the forum about a brand new camera system with a limited number of expensive lenses.

ANY new camera system in 2018 is going to have a tough road ahead.  They are going to have to have a massive amount of dry powder and be prepared to battle it out for YEARS.  That's the grim outlook for a system with no track record that is getting the benefit of the doubt.  Now a company that has already closed up shop on its customers once in the last few years?  They are going to have to overcome even bigger hurdles.

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

A NX2 would be a no brainer imo.

The NX1 with the two S-zooms and a couple of primes surfaces for sub $2k every now and then. With just the short S-zoom and one or two primes they touch $1k. If this rumors reaches "probably" I will go for it just to have the lenses ready.

Makes sense.  Once the NX2 hits I'll let the suckers buy it and pick over the wreckage at bargain basement prices once it is canceled.  You've got a good strategy.

Samsung has trained everyone to wait for the fire sale.

Honestly I really hope they bring something nice out and succeed.  But there is going to have to be a fundamental change in strategy.

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You know when Samsung exited the ILC market, I thought it was a precursor to teaming up with either Nikon or Canon. In my view Sony enjoys a competitive advantage in cameras because it is an electronics company in a business where cameras are rapidly turning into electronics products (a bit like telephones). And Samsung has shown (and certainly has the tech) that it is the one company that can easily out Sony, Sony.

I still think that say a Samsung/Nikon partnership makes so much sense. Samsung would bring Nikon all the bleeding edge sensor, sensor af, processing and Nikon would bring its optics, camera infrastructure and commitment. The NX1 showed that even with the best tech in the world, Samsung couldnt make a meaningful (and especially meaningful to a company as large as Samsung) dent in the market. 

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

@Trek of Joy huge respect to Fuji and what they do. The thing is that while, as @Andrew Reid mentioned, NX1 has an amazing (under the right circumstance) dual IS (lens+DIS) while a Fuji combo with the 16-55 offers none of that. Also the S was less than 1000$/€/£ brand new. Also, there is no native fish eye. These 2 lenses, the 45mm 1.8th and the 12-24 are my most used lenses for pro work and the pancake 30mm/2f for everyday/carry around lens with the extremilly capable NX500.

Then the bodies

 Currently there is no Fuji camera reaching NX capabilities. No slow motion, crop in 4K, limited recording capabilities without an extra grip while the NX1 goes straight 78minutes in 1080p, no flagship touch capabilities etc etc I could go on and on. Fuji are great and all, I am always looking at them, especially for the good ultra wide zooms they have, I would love a 8-16mm/2f-2.8f stabilezed S lens, but sadly they do not.have the resources to compete. M43 will probably eat their share really soon.

Your hand must have been too heavy! I just looked on mine now and it is

16-20mm 2f,

20-23mm 2.2f,

24-32/33mm 2.5f and 2.8f until the end. Not bad for a slightly lighter and smaller lens that the non stabilized Fuji!

Also, the new X-A5 ia a lot worst camera than the NX500 with similar size and price, 3 full years later! Just look at the specs and laugh..

It has been awhile since I've had the 16-50s, my mistake. I bought one after release and sold it when the whispers of them shuttering the camera division first started.

I found the 30/45mm to be odd FL's on APS-c - and outside of the 85 (which is great), Samsung was really lacking in the prime dept. And there will never be any additions, ever. As a system Fuji is more complete - its 10-24 UWA is better - wider, stabilized and constant aperture, the 50-140 is easily the equal to the S with some of the best OIS of any lens I've ever used, and there are no lenses like the 1.4 and 1.2 primes, the 14mm, the 16/1.4, the 90mm, the 80mm macro, the 100-400 and the upcoming releases - and so on, and so on. And Fuji is cleaner at ISO's above 1600, which always was/is the NX1's Achilles heel. The 16-55 may not be stabilized, but with the IBIS body coming that's not an issue, and its still a very sharp lens. I can give up the fractions of a stop since the Fuji is a better low light camera, just bump the ISO and SS. Plus there's pretty robust trigger/flash support for Fuji, next to nothing for Samsung. Don't care about the NX500 either, since non EVF cameras don't appeal to me at all.

The NX1 is a great camera and if it serves your needs that's cool. For me - I need more lenses and a full system, the NX remnants just don't work for me. I shoot a lot of natural light stuff and I'm frequently at 6400, I prefer the files from my XT2 or the a7r2. They were on to something, another generation of improvements to the NX1 and 5-6 more lenses, including the 300/2.8 they showed off before killing the NX, and they could have had a killer system. 

Cheers

36 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

ANY new camera system in 2018 is going to have a tough road ahead.  They are going to have to have a massive amount of dry powder and be prepared to battle it out for YEARS.  That's the grim outlook for a system with no track record that is getting the benefit of the doubt.  Now a company that has already closed up shop on its customers once in the last few years?  They are going to have to overcome even bigger hurdles.

Yes, even CaNikon will have to play catch up when they drop a FF mirrorless. The advantage they have over Samsung and everyone else is the two largest - by far - user groups to draw from and the two most recognized photography brands.

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14 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

I still think that say a Samsung/Nikon partnership makes so much sense. Samsung would bring Nikon all the bleeding edge sensor, sensor af, processing and Nikon would bring its optics, camera infrastructure and commitment. The NX1 showed that even with the best tech in the world, Samsung couldnt make a meaningful (and especially meaningful to a company as large as Samsung) dent in the market. 

I completely agree! Nikon should have hired the entire Samsung camera team and gone to work. Samsung tech, Nikon design input, optics, marketing and brand name appeal = sure fire hit, especially if they did both an APS-C model and full frame like Sony do.

Magic Lantern say they were in contact with Samsung just before NX1 was cancelled. Never known such a push into enthusiasts hearts by a big company. Usually they are more interested in selling toasters and microwaves by the millions.

Nikon are way too dependant on Sony for sensors IMHO... One change of mind at a Sony management meeting and bang, there goes your sensor supply. Even though there would obviously be contracts, I doubt they are all that far reaching long-term contracts.

Here is my ideal spec of a Nikon mirrorless camera for 2018:

  • Full frame, 24MP (6000 x 4000), with clean ISO 12,800
  • 6K video in both H.264 and H.265 format, with further option for ALL-I and paid upgrade to ProRes 422 LT
  • Nikon flat profile
  • IBIS
  • At least 240fps in 2.5K... 4K 120p would be nice too :)
  • Huge battery in the main body grip, without need to extend size of camera with vertical grip. Make literally the entire grip a battery (like Hasselblad).
  • NX1 inspired ergonomics and control layout
  • Nikon colour science but updated for Rec2020 and HDR standards - wider colour gammut
  • Dual Pixel AF with robust tracking - even with EF mount adapter
  • No F-mount nonsense - do a shallow flange like E-mount for adaptability
  • Wide range of fast primes and official adapter for F mount
  • Nikon logo, understated pro design... but not retro hipster bullshit Df style plastic affair! NX1 or Leica SL style please!

I believe this is what we have to look forward to in near future... just don't know who from...

Now do it for $2.5k instead of $3.5k and you have yourself instant market share.

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27 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

You know when Samsung exited the ILC market, I thought it was a precursor to teaming up with either Nikon or Canon. In my view Sony enjoys a competitive advantage in cameras because it is an electronics company in a business where cameras are rapidly turning into electronics products (a bit like telephones). And Samsung has shown (and certainly has the tech) that it is the one company that can easily out Sony, Sony.

I still think that say a Samsung/Nikon partnership makes so much sense. Samsung would bring Nikon all the bleeding edge sensor, sensor af, processing and Nikon would bring its optics, camera infrastructure and commitment. The NX1 showed that even with the best tech in the world, Samsung couldnt make a meaningful (and especially meaningful to a company as large as Samsung) dent in the market. 

That's the thing.  Obviously there is something there at Samsung.  Who knows how these things go.  I mean Nikon could put out one camera with a Samsung sensor.  It's not like they would have to completely switch over.  Maybe the R&D for color science etc isn't worth it unless it is used in quite a few shipped bodies.  I have no idea.

It is just bizarre they came out with such an aggressive product and folded up shop in record time.  You look at what Sony went through in the DECADE they were on the market before they started getting respect.  If I was going to launch a new camera system I would be prepared for at least five brutal years.

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Hmmm... rereading the rumor - it does appear to be in two parts. Part one, is that Samsung has designed/made a very high end (mirrorless) apsc image sensor. A lot of impressive detail in this part of the rumor. Part 2 of the rumor is speculation that this image sensor is going to be utilised in a resurrected NX2 (which sounds pretty unlikely.)

But just because NX2 resurrection is a non-starter doesnt mean that they are not developing the sensor. Why should Samsung leave the high end image sensor market up to Sony especially as they know that Nikon and Canon dont particularly like sourcing from one of their competitors (Canon uses Sony's 1 inch sensor.) Canon and Nikon would be bonkers not to put this tech and this sort of sensor into their mirrorless offerings. And quite frankly from Samsung's perspective, these sensors in Canikon bodies will show off their smartphone 'image sensor' tech far more than any fleeting interest in an NX2.

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