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34 minutes ago, Coiii said:

For me Blackmagic already has the technology. They have the sensors, the software, and the ecosystem. Now they need to work on reliability. Add $5000usd and transform the plastic body of the Ursa 12K into a magnesium/metal body and work harder to solve the sensor issues, color cast, etc. They also need better customer service.

It is a magnesium alloy body. 66w=

 

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6 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Holy shit, are we really complaining about how it looks now? It's not going to win any awards, but it looks fine. All the buttons are easily accessible and it's easily rigged up. 

Are we really gonna pretend that RED cameras are good looking? They're boxes with a mid 2000s gun anesthetic. 

It's not about how they "look", come on are you serious? A plastic body against a metal/magnesium body it's night and day in terms of reliability. It's night and day if you work on set with the camera powered on all day and it's a huge difference if you work on harsh conditions like extreme cold and heat. It's not about "button accessibility". Please be serious.

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BM is an Australian company and the Australian government has just poured a lot of money into getting more of Hollywood (and Bollywood ETC) here. 

It would not surprise me if BM got just a little bit of that along the way.

 

They might not have been playing on the same fields as Red but I think that they just might be with this camera (if it lives up to the specs).

 

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2 minutes ago, Coiii said:

It's not about how they "look", come on are you serious? A plastic body against a metal/magnesium body it's night and day in terms of reliability. It's night and day if you work on set with the camera powered on all day and it's a huge difference if you work on harsh conditions like extreme cold and heat. It's not about "button accessibility". Please be serious.

Again, it is a magnesium alloy body! At least do your research, jeez. 

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3 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

It is a magnesium alloy body. 66w=

 

Dude, I'm sorry, but if you take a RED in one hand and a URSA in the other hand you will notice immediately which camera is a toy and which one is not. That's a fact. If you don't want to see it it's your problem.

2 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Again, it is a magnesium alloy body! At least do your research, jeez. 

The 7D it's also magnesium alloy. That's not an argument if we are gonna talk about reliability in different environments and extreme usage. That's where Blackmagic fails.

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1 minute ago, Coiii said:

Dude, I'm sorry, but if you take a RED in one hand and a URSA in the other hand you will notice immediately which camera is a toy and which one is not. That's a fact. If you don't want to see it it's your problem.

The 7D it's also magnesium alloy. That's not an argument if we are gonna talk about reliability in different environments and extreme usage. That's where Blackmagic fails.

"Dude" you literally called it plastic multiple times and didn't know the camera was metal. You've been talking out of your ass. 

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2 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

"Dude" you literally called it plastic multiple times and didn't know the camera was metal. You've been talking out of your ass. 

Ok, whatever you want. Keep evaluating camera bodies by how they place the buttons and thinking that all magnesium alloy bodies are the same 🤷.

Anyways. BM needs a proper high quality metal body like RED and ARRI. That's one of several steps to get into the major leagues.

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3 minutes ago, Coiii said:

Ok, whatever you want. Keep evaluating camera bodies by how they place the buttons and thinking that all magnesium alloy bodies are the same 🤷.

Anyways. BM needs a proper high quality metal body like RED and ARRI. That's one of several steps to get into the major leagues.

You're deflecting. Indeed they aren't all the same, but there's also a hell of a lot of difference between PLASTIC and MAGNESIUM ALLOY, and you made it real clear that you had no idea what the camera was even made out of before critiquing it for being "plastic" and suggesting they add $5000 to the price. So yeah, "dude," you were clearly talking out of your ass and won't even admit it. 

 

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To steer us back on course, just on the QC issue.

I don't think the QC will be the same for a 1k pocket as it is for a 10k ursa. So any anecdotes about how someone's pocket failed just doesn't mean anything. 

This ursa body has stayed relatively the same throughout several generations - it would make sense that they have ironed out the kink's in the manufacturing process by now, and what's more, because the body is the same, it means they were able to pass the cost-savings to the end-consumer.

If they are aiming for the top of the market, I doubt they would be stupid enough to sell an unreliable product and tarnish their name for good.  

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14 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

To steer us back on course, just on the QC issue.

I don't think the QC will be the same for a 1k pocket as it is for a 10k ursa. So any anecdotes about how someone's pocket failed just doesn't mean anything. 

This ursa body has stayed relatively the same throughout several generations - it would make sense that they have ironed out the kink's in the manufacturing process by now, and what's more, because the body is the same, it means they were able to pass the cost-savings to the end-consumer.

If they are aiming for the top of the market, I doubt they would be stupid enough to sell an unreliable product and tarnish their name for good.  

A big tarnish was the Magenta cast issue that a lot of sensors had. I doubt we'll be seeing that with this product. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

I don't think the QC will be the same for a 1k pocket as it is for a 10k ursa. So any anecdotes about how someone's pocket failed just doesn't mean anything.

An important distinction. Any qualms about build quality should start and stop here. The Pocket Cinema Camera does feel very cheap, I will give @Coiii that much...but the URSA and specifically this model isn’t a part of that family. I have personally never used an URSA myself but just by looking at them they seem to be a step or two above the Pocket line.

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I love the URSA Mini Pro bodies and am delighted they chose to keep it. I never had the pleasure of owning one, but I would definitely purchase the shoulder mount and the EVF at some point. I hate shooting without an EVF in bright sunlight.

Like the FS7, the UMP form factor reminds me of the days when we shot on film with 16mm cameras. All you get from RED/Kinefinity/ZCAM is a shoe box with an articulating screen on top. What am I supposed to do with that?

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To my knowledge it took over a decade for RED cameras to penetrate this market and finally become an industry standard. But that was a time where the debate between film and digital media was on it’s peak and RED had a double challenge to face.

BM has definitely the dynamics to become the next RED. If Ursa 12K proves to be a reliable body, it offers too much innovation for anyone to ignore. I think this is the first time that sensor technology, codec and editing software are placed into a straight line by any company, no? Even the mighty Sony tried to maintain such an ecosystem and failed.

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