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Kino last won the day on September 9 2016

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  1. Kinefinity Terra 5K is "not finalized on shipping date," according to their website: http://www.kinefinity.com/shop/terra/?lang=en It is still a hypothetical camera not in release, despite promises of shipping so long ago. As for the 6K sensor, it's the same as the Kinefinity 6K and has the worst rolling shutter you have ever seen in a cinema camera. For those who want 6K resolution that debayers to proper 4K, there are only going to be two realistic choices: RED and the EVA1. I think Panasonic has done something amazing and noteworthy. It's a very ambitious camera and the Vimeo footage is truly gorgeous (despite the fact that we are not even talking about the RAW 5.7K output as of yet):
  2. Panasonic is now claiming 12 Bit RAW 5.7K output to Odyssey and Shogun using 6G-SDI output to CDNG files (up to 30fps) available in early 2018: I believe that if you already have an Odyssey RAW package, it will be included. I'm not sure if it's a free firmware upgrade on the Panasonic side of things. No mention of file sizes, but if previous experience with Odyssey and 4K RAW is any indication, they will be huge! I'm guessing around 400-500 MB/S or larger given the 17.25 megapixel sensor.
  3. Kino

    1DC Discontinued

    The 1DC produces a gorgeous image to rival any digital cinema camera. No doubt about it. You guys are lucky to have that camera! As for 10 bit, I don't think it would have been possible to do 4K 10 bit intraframe in a completely weather-sealed body as the 1D. There would be way too much heat generation. Unless, what you mean is that you prefer a 10 bit highly-compressed codec to MJPEG. The processing power was simply not there for such compression and Canon had not developed any internal 10 bit 4K codecs before the C300 II.
  4. Kino

    1DC Discontinued

    I would imagine that the 1DX and 1DC were designed together as part of one platform, but released in a staggered way so as to maximize profits for the same product. Even Sony has become the master of this! Moreover, this does not take away from the originality of the 1DC's approach to 4K intra-frame video using MJPEG. No other DSLR manufacturer offered internal intra-frame 4K in those early years. Combined with the 4:2:2 subsampling, large pixel pitch, and 1.3 crop factor, this accounts the 1DC/1DXII's superior image quality compared with other 8-bit DSLRs. And, just as you stated above, I even prefer its image to the C300 II in some ways.
  5. Kino

    1DC Discontinued

    I always thought the 1DC was way "beyond Canon's imagination" for 2012. Well, except for the $12K+ price, which is very much part of their unique "imagination." An 8K DSLR is possible for a price, but it will be more expensive than the original 1DC considering the current price of implementing such tech.
  6. Kino

    1DC Discontinued

    I agree that the 1DC is a truly special camera, but the C200's release means there won't be any 1DC II, at least not this year. It would be hard to sandwich a 1DC II between the 1DX II and C200 without undermining sales for those two cameras. As a result, Canon DSLR shooters will have to content themselves with the 5DIV or 1DXII in the meantime. The more interesting question is what they might do with the commercial release of their 8K sensor designed for their higher-end cinema EOS cameras. Last time in 2012, the 1DC and C500 were released within a few months of one another as Canon's first 4K video offerings. Will we see a similar pattern with Canon 8K: one experimental and revolutionary DSLR and one pro cinema camera?
  7. I cannot wait for "Apprentice: White House Edition."
  8. Lovely cinematography as always Ed. The grade is similar to some of your very filmic MX footage (the Cuba one is particularly gorgeous, in case people here have not seen it): It's a different kind of look for the F65, as I don't see that type of desaturated look (in this case, with a heavy teal/blue modern grade) applied to this camera very often.
  9. Canon will typically impose minimum inventory/stock numbers on dealers when approving of any camera price drop. This means B&H had a certain number of 1DCs to sell at that price, as the minimum they would have to take from Canon would be something like 10 units at the very least for such a popular store. Once they sold out, the price went back up.
  10. Ed, you can watch the C500 in action in the current IMAX film, A Beautiful Planet, which was shot entirely on the C500 (and the 1DC for time-lapse): There is also an interesting article in American Cinematographer on why they chose the C500's uncompressed 4K RAW over other cinema cameras that they tested: http://www.theasc.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/AC-A-Beautiful-Planet.pdf
  11. Yes, ISO and WB are set or "baked-in" to a certain degree, as seen in Canon's white paper: Of course, WB can be easily manipulated in the RMF files in post as with any RAW format. As for ISO, like the Panasonic Varicam, the C500 employs analog gain control (as Policar already mentioned on page one of the thread). Combined with its noise performance, this allows for outstanding low-light abilities for a cinema camera. I'm not here to defend Canon's, Sony's, RED's or any other manufacturer's definition of "RAW." I would only point out that Canon's Cinema RAW offers some unique features: Compared with conventional approaches, this image processing chain results in improvements and advantages in the following areas relevant to the four color data streams: color separation, demosaicing, resolution, and anti-aliasing. This is why some have noted that the C500's 4K resolves a very high level of detail per pixel (something that is also true of the C300 II). Moreover, like ARRIRAW, Canon Cinema RAW reaches an insanely high data rate. In fact, a Canon RMF file delivers more data per frame (over 11 MB) than almost any other 4K RAW format with the exception of ARRIRAW in open gate, which matches Canon’s data rate of 11 MB per frame, but at a lower resolution than 4K. For these reasons, and despite fixing ISO at the time of shooting, Canon RAW is a formidable format that was apparently designed as the antithesis to Redcode, which has relatively low data rates, no analog gain, poor ISO/noise performance, and high compression in the green color channels. In this way, you can think of Canon RAW as diametrically opposed to Redcode. The latter has its own advantages of course in terms of reducing storage and unlocking 5K, 6K and 8K recording in a very portable camera package and easily manageable RAW format for editing. Nevertheless, I would say that RED has a lot more to answer for than Canon when it comes to defining its format as "RAW," considering how much sensor data is discarded in Redcode compression.
  12. I do not see the C500 support as particularly high on the Atomos agenda. I could be wrong, but the Inferno is simply the wrong device for capturing C500 footage in all its different output modes, even with the two SDI connectors. They may get there someday, but it's a huge gamble to assume that everything is coming in future upgrades. DVXuser is one place to look for how the C500 works or doesn't work with Atomos recorders. The Odyssey may be a bitter pill for some, but it is one you have to take to work with the C500. The extra fee for the RAW license is unfortunate, I agree. Of course, without the license you can still shoot the camera in 4K ProRes (up to 30p) and 2K 12 bit RGB 4:4:4, which upscales incredibly well to 4K as both are derived from the same 4 x 2K lattices I mentioned above. Compare 4K and 2K (here only at 10 bit) starting at 1:57 in this test by Hurlbut: Aside from the Human Voice trailer I linked above, here are some other examples of 2K 12 bit RGB 4:4:4 (shown in HD without upscaling): There are many more of those lens tests from Cooke Optics using the C500's 2K RGB mode on Vimeo. Cooke also has some slow motion examples shot in 60fps (10 bit RGB) and 120fps (10 bit YCC) and recorded on the Codex. The Odyssey for its part records onto Samsung 850 EVO drives that cost $320 for 1TB or you can go for the Samsung 850 PRO 1TB at $420 (or any of the 850 Pro line that are smaller and cheaper). That will give you one hour of 4K RAW at 24p, 2.5 hours of 4K ProRes 4:2:2 HQ, or 5.5 hours of 4K ProRes 4:2:2 LT. In terms of cost per GB, I would say that is a very competitive price when compared with RED mini-mags or CF 2.0 cards, for example. You can also take your SSD, stick it into a drive bay, and start editing right away. I do agree that the battery solution is not ideal, but the optional battery adapter on the back works with Canon C300/C500 batteries and gives you around 1.5 to 2 hours of continuous recording from everything I have read. It's a much lighter solution than attaching a V-lock on rails. You would be carrying the same battery that the camera uses, so I think it is an ideal setup in that sense. You can also mount the recorder to the camera in numerous ways depending on if you want to go with rails or not.
  13. CinemaDNG is Adobe's RAW format (for example, the BMPC-4K records RAW using CDNG), but it is only promised in a future Atomos firmware update for the Inferno (as mentioned on their website). When it is released, you will be able to record up to 30fps from the C500 in CDNG on the Inferno. Nothing else has been specified regarding CDNG recording in the Inferno. For example, will it retain the 10 bit logarithmic RAW signal, which is crucial to unpacking Canon Cinema RAW in post? With RMF, you can process your files to ensure proper unpacking of the 10 bit log. I'm not sure how it will work with CDNG. What will happen with the four lattices of the Bayer sensor data I referenced above? These data streams must be recorded properly to ensure effective demosaicing in post to retain the C500's outstanding resolution and anti-aliasing performance in 4K. As for 2K 12 bit RGB 4:4:4, it is not even supported in the Inferno, let alone ProRes 4:4:4:4. Some of the links I posted above go into the specifics and unique attributes of Canon cinema RAW, which is quite different from almost any other RAW implementation since the Canon RAW has much larger data rates (moreover, ISO is baked-in and white balance is set). For this reason, I would prefer to remain within Canon's RMF workflow (or DPX, as the Odyssey records the 2K 12 bit RGB 4:4:4 into this compatible format) as it is crucial to extracting the most faithful recording from the 3G-SDI data streams. Here is a section from one of Canon's white papers on Canon Cinema RAW in the C500: "Management of C500 Output Data Rate – Logarithmic Encoding Considerations of RAW data rate outputs from the EOS C500 differ from that of most other single sensor cameras – and they are two-fold: 1. In close consultation with no less than five separate digital recording manufacturers we established a consensus on a maximum camera data rate output that could be managed by each (even though each had different recording strategies) 2. Very important – Canon specifically wanted to use the SMPTE ST 425-1:2011 serial 3G SDI interface as the transport mechanism for our RAW data – in order to facilitate: o A standardized (and universal) serial digital delivery to each of the disparate recorders o Passage of the camera output RAW data into broadcast 4K/2K/HD infrastructures that utilize standardized 3G SDI system elements (camera CCUs, routers, encoders etc) Accordingly, the RAW data rate output is constrained to less than 3Gbps for both 4K and 2K having frame rates up to 30P – so only one 3G SDI interface would be required. This data rate was achieved without resorting to compression by constraining the camera output to a bit depth of 10-bit for the 4K RAW and to 12-bit for the 2K RAW – as outlined in the following: Canon 4K: 4444 Bayer RAW Data rate @ 30 fps 2048 x 1080 x 4 x 10 x 30 = 2,654,208,000 bits/ second Canon 2K: RGB 4:4:[email protected] -bit Data Rate at 30 fps 2048 x 1080 x 3 x 12 x 30 = 2,388,787,200 bits / second Both of these data streams fit comfortably within the 3G SDI interface standard. For higher frame rates – up to 60P – the elevated data rates (still less than 6 Gbps) will require two 3G SDI interfaces. To meet those two bit-depth constraints without compromising restoration of the higher bit-depth of the image sensor output in postproduction resort was made to an alternative bit rate reduction strategy – namely, logarithmic encoding of the image sensor linear representation (according to the mathematically prescribed Canon Log). Specifically, the high bit depth of the image sensor digital outputs are logarithmically transformed to a 10-bit depth for the 4K mode, and to a 12-bit (with 10-bit as a selectable option) for the 2K mode. This is a completely reversible process. While Canon does not disclose the bit depth of our A/D converter – we do affirm that the linearization process (de-Canon Log) can reproduce the linear representation at 12-bit, 14-bit, or 16-bit (DPX or Open EXR)." http://learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/white_papers/White_Paper_originatinghighqualityc500.pdf (bold emphasis added)
  14. While most people associate the C500 with famous American DPs like Hurlbut or Jeff Cronenweth, we should not forget to mention the C500 work shot by CML founder Geoff Boyle, BSC: It's impressive to read that this was all shot with EF glass. Here are some of Boyle's lens tests using the C500: http://www.cinematography.net/CML-CMIR-Lens-Tests.html His over and under exposure results as part of the 2015 CML camera tests are also available: http://www.cinematography.net/edited-pages/C500-uwe-2015.html There is a wealth of useful info there on the camera, especially with regard to the differences in overexposure when dealing with tungsten vs. daylight. Unfortunately, the 5,000 ISO test of the two low-light champs, the C500 and the Varicam, is no longer available through the online link.
  15. No problem. I'm glad to help in any way I can. The C500's HD 120fps is output at 10 bit 4:2:2 YCC in DPX (uncompressed) and MOV formats that should be supported without the RAW upgrade. However, I would check with Mitch Gross or someone else at CG to make sure, as it seems important for you. From what I have read and seen, the RAW 4096 X 1080 is the best 120fps footage from the camera. This is different from 120fps "Half RAW" 4096 x 2160, which leads to a loss of vertical resolution.
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