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Sony A7S III (Or will it be A7H?) set for July - video specs tease


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You could literally post a frame from R5 or Arri Alexa, say it's a Sony A7siii frame and someone would say the color isnt that good and that something is wrong with the skin tones.

These recent camera releases have resulted in a significant amount of velocity  and trolling right across the web.  Every camera is good these days. Every single one. Nor is a single one of them

Some tests and a review from Brandon Li. Chris  

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4 hours ago, luizhmgoncalves said:

I find the footages here:

4k H265 10bit - EOS R5
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dA1Em-D2ioEJU5jInk_JT_EsQGVIprCZ

4k H264 10bit - A7s3 footage (Terrible filmed by those Italian guys a video posted early)
https://slimdogsproduction.wetransfer.com/downloads/be4e230906d02ad1281aa39cf8a4fe1820200723133445/c42214

 

 

3 hours ago, Super8 said:

Premier might not be the best software to use for playback.   FCPX might have a better chance working with H265.

 

I was able to smoothly play the Canon R5 4K120FPS footage within DR using both a 1080P timeline and a 4K timeline.  The caveat there is that it stuttered at the very beginning then it played smoothly, I'm not sure if behind the scenes DR was cheating a bit and doing some sort of caching; but my system actually surprised me, it played smoother than some of my GoPro and Drone footage.

 

I tested the footage on both a 1080P timeline and a 4K timeline and playback was still smooth. My system is an HP Z4 with Windows 10, Core i9 14 core CPU, a RTX 2080TI video card, Davinci Resolve Studio, 64GB of memory, and NVME RAID array for the project drive.  I haven't tested the Sony footage yet because it is still downloading, I wish they had broken it up into individual files so that I could download just one.

 

One thing that I couldn't tell from the YouTube videos is if they were using DR Studio or the free version, you don't get HW acceleration in the free version.  My build is probably around $6K so well below the $15K MAC system in the video. So I went a step further and color graded the clip and DR was still smooth. I do feel like it was at the edge of what it could handle, and would probably require proxies for any kind of real work with this footage.

 

Another annoying thing is you will definitely need proxies if you want to do any kind of speed ramping with the footage, when I tried to bring it up to normal playback speed it was unusable.

 

Sample-Playback.JPG

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I just tested the Sony footage, way easier on my system, 10% CPU, 15% GPU playback was effortless. Even after grading it, the GPU was around 22%. So not only does the Canon R5 overheat, it uses codecs that throw away all of the GPU HW acceleration progress over the past 10yrs and pushes your CPU to its max or makes you create proxies.

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6 hours ago, androidlad said:

Regarding the so-called "16bit linear RAW" 4264 x 2408 60FPS HDMI output, it's actually derived from 12bit ADC sensor readout, then dithered(upscaled) by the DSP to 16bit.

Are there any benefits to having the "fake" information derived from the original readout? Or is this simply a useful marketing tool for Sony?

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2 minutes ago, billdoubleu said:

Are there any benefits to having the "fake" information derived from the original readout? Or is this simply a useful marketing tool for Sony?

Mostly a marketing tool so people perceive it as on par with those CineAlta cameras.

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6 hours ago, androidlad said:

Regarding the so-called "16bit linear RAW" 4264 x 2408 60FPS HDMI output, it's actually derived from 12bit ADC sensor readout, then dithered(upscaled) by the DSP to 16bit.

Hope you don't mind me asking but how do you know this? Are the specs for the sensor they're using online?

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1 hour ago, androidlad said:

4K 24-60P and 4K 120P have almost the same level of sharpness and detail. And 1080P is not supersampled, but pixel-binned from 24-60P and line-skipped from 100-240P.

voe0rrp.jpg

Is this your observation or a stated fact?

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8 hours ago, androidlad said:

Regarding the so-called "16bit linear RAW" 4264 x 2408 60FPS HDMI output, it's actually derived from 12bit ADC sensor readout, then dithered(upscaled) by the DSP to 16bit.

How can they deliver so much DR with a 12bit adc?

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2 hours ago, abehalpert said:

How can they deliver so much DR with a 12bit adc?

Sony is king when it comes to noise reduction (and sharpening). If that's a good thing or not is highly subjective.

 

I'd rather have a an organic looking image than the digital madness the a7s3, a73, a6600, a7s2 etc. offer.

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23 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Yeah I like the nikon colours, but dynamic range is still lacking on nikon cameras (and some usefull features). Maybe they will amaze us with their next camera, but I really doubt it. They have no higher end line to protect, so they could have done this 8 years ago and blew the competition away, but they didnt, so not expecting any miracles from their end.

Where did you find the DR lacking in Nikon's. I mean in some test Nikon Flat profile competes already well with Canon Log profile. I haven't done enough test myself but Nikon log gives you even more DR and highlight Roll off are among the best in the MLC cameras I have seen. What useful features, they have excellent ergonomics, Ibis, viewfinder and construction. What do they miss. For example I was laughting when the leaked BH of the A7S3 came out because the guy was so wow about doing rack focus with the back touch screen. I mean I have been doing it on my Z since it started. By the way, they were the first to give 422 video ot, 10 bit FF camera and even RAW.

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38 minutes ago, deezid said:

Sony is king when it comes to noise reduction (and sharpening). If that's a good thing or not is highly subjective.

 

I'd rather have a an organic looking image than the digital madness the a7s3, a73, a6600, a7s2 etc. offer.

I don't believe that's true. Nikon when they released the Z6 it had a ton of sharpening on the image. Sony was in my eyes is just very detailed from the downsampling. Canon with their aggressive AA filter give a nice image feel at the expenses of detail which many like and some don't -  just different philosophies.

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5 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I was able to smoothly play the Canon R5 4K120FPS footage within DR using both a 1080P timeline and a 4K timeline.  The caveat there is that it stuttered at the very beginning then it played smoothly, I'm not sure if behind the scenes DR was cheating a bit and doing some sort of caching; but my system actually surprised me, it played smoother than some of my GoPro and Drone footage.

I tested the footage on both a 1080P timeline and a 4K timeline and playback was still smooth. My system is an HP Z4 with Windows 10, Core i9 14 core CPU, a RTX 2080TI video card, Davinci Resolve Studio, 64GB of memory, and NVME RAID array for the project drive.  I haven't tested the Sony footage yet because it is still downloading, I wish they had broken it up into individual files so that I could download just one.

One thing that I couldn't tell from the YouTube videos is if they were using DR Studio or the free version, you don't get HW acceleration in the free version.  My build is probably around $6K so well below the $15K MAC system in the video. So I went a step further and color graded the clip and DR was still smooth. I do feel like it was at the edge of what it could handle, and would probably require proxies for any kind of real work with this footage.

Another annoying thing is you will definitely need proxies if you want to do any kind of speed ramping with the footage, when I tried to bring it up to normal playback speed it was unusable.

I Just did another test here. 
Its crazy wath you said, that even your machine with RTX 2080 ti is on the limit for that footage.
Maybe Nvidia RTXs has better implementation for the kind of compression of the h265 Eos R5 are generating. 

Runing on Resolve Studio too.
This time I tested with another Canon Eos R5 clip from another source also.
The clip with trees are from A7s3 - XAVS HS that is H265 10bit.
And in the end i add two 8k Raw clips from canon EOS R5

Again, the Eos R5 h265 didn't playback realtime and CPUU 100%.
The A7s h265 plays realtime, and my CPU was at 60%
The Raw 8k played realtime with the CPU at 15%.
 

For me it made both the R5 and R6 unusable.

Imagine having to do proxies or chache all the files for a Feature documentary
My last project was a 72min documentary with 20h plus of footage to select and edit.
An youtuber produces hours of footage everyday.
These files kill any workflow.

 

ResolveHLTimeline.jpg

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1 hour ago, PabloB said:

I don't believe that's true. Nikon when they released the Z6 it had a ton of sharpening on the image. Sony was in my eyes is just very detailed from the downsampling. Canon with their aggressive AA filter give a nice image feel at the expenses of detail which many like and some don't -  just different philosophies.

You can turn down the sharpening on the Z6.  It depends on what mode you shoot with but you can turn it all the way down.

1 hour ago, Danyyyel said:

Where did you find the DR lacking in Nikon's. I mean in some test Nikon Flat profile competes already well with Canon Log profile. I haven't done enough test myself but Nikon log gives you even more DR and highlight Roll off are among the best in the MLC cameras I have seen. What useful features, they have excellent ergonomics, Ibis, viewfinder and construction. What do they miss. For example I was laughting when the leaked BH of the A7S3 came out because the guy was so wow about doing rack focus with the back touch screen. I mean I have been doing it on my Z since it started. By the way, they were the first to give 422 video ot, 10 bit FF camera and even RAW.

Yeah the "Z6 DR is lacking" comments are coming out of no where over the last 3 days.

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1 hour ago, PabloB said:

I don't believe that's true. Nikon when they released the Z6 it had a ton of sharpening on the image. Sony was in my eyes is just very detailed from the downsampling. Canon with their aggressive AA filter give a nice image feel at the expenses of detail which many like and some don't -  just different philosophies.

It is true. Ghosting from heavy NR is well documented 

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2 hours ago, luizhmgoncalves said:

I Just did another test here. 
Its crazy wath you said, that even your machine with RTX 2080 ti is on the limit for that footage.
Maybe Nvidia RTXs has better implementation for the kind of compression of the h265 Eos R5 are generating. 

Runing on Resolve Studio too.
This time I tested with another Canon Eos R5 clip from another source also.
The clip with trees are from A7s3 - XAVS HS that is H265 10bit.
And in the end i add two 8k Raw clips from canon EOS R5

Again, the Eos R5 h265 didn't playback realtime and CPUU 100%.
The A7s h265 plays realtime, and my CPU was at 60%
The Raw 8k played realtime with the CPU at 15%.
 

For me it made both the R5 and R6 unusable.

Imagine having to do proxies or chache all the files for a Feature documentary
My last project was a 72min documentary with 20h plus of footage to select and edit.
An youtuber produces hours of footage everyday.
These files kill any workflow.

 

ResolveHLTimeline.jpg

I took a 54Gb 15 minute 4K DCI All-I HEVC file from my 1DX III into my iPadPro ... opened in Lumafusion and it played in realtime ... I then exported it as H.264

4K DCi to VLC on the same device ... rendered in under 5 minutes ... and was perfect ... when I transcode the same file type on my 2010 Mac Pro

it takes easily 5 times as long.

So Max Yuryev is correct ... the new Apple chips will work with the H.265 4:2:2 files without breaking a sweat.

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