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Didn't wanna make a new thread for just memes..  ??

Yeah, though my work horse lens is all in EF so not really concerned about it yet.     Here is a compare between bmpcc6k vs komodo i saw online  

You can adapt manual MFT lenses to E Mount And E mount can support up to FF, while MFT can support up to S35

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I'm guessing Canon is more interested in selling lenses than anything else. Of course, they want to sell cameras, but it would make sense that the margins are WAY higher on lenses than on cameras. EF becoming the standard for so long definitely helped and if the RF-Mount becomes the new mirrorless mount that everyone without their own mount uses (Red, Z-Cam, Black Magic, etc), then I'm sure Canon would be very happy with that. 

So Canon gets compressed raw (though only to about 5:1) and Red gets mounts and sensor help. Wonder what else is going on. 

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2 hours ago, currensheldon said:

I'm guessing Canon is more interested in selling lenses than anything else. Of course, they want to sell cameras, but it would make sense that the margins are WAY higher on lenses than on cameras. EF becoming the standard for so long definitely helped and if the RF-Mount becomes the new mirrorless mount that everyone without their own mount uses (Red, Z-Cam, Black Magic, etc), then I'm sure Canon would be very happy with that. 

So Canon gets compressed raw (though only to about 5:1) and Red gets mounts and sensor help. Wonder what else is going on. 

RED may have helped Canon develop the DIGIC X Processor, and other yet to be announced ones 😉

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13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Question is why would Canon do it, what's in it for them? They are fierce competitors with Cinema EOS vs RED digital cinema cameras.

It is clear why RED did it. 
RED wants to target a more "consumer" market with Komodo, which means choosing a mirrorless mount is sensible. 

I'd argue a MFT Mount would be best, but perhaps RED wants to avoid the marketing confusion of using a S35 sensor behind a MFT Mount (sadly far far far too many people don't understand that this is possible) and maybe also the Komodo sensor can't do this? (as Komodo has a somewhat larger than normal sensor for S35, maybe it is just ever so slightly too big now for MFT?)

So what is next best? E / X / Z / L / RF mounts of course. Sony seems to clearly not want competitors using E Mount, seeing as how Kinefinity only offers a dumb E Mount. 

I guess (hope!) RED went to all of these others to see who else was open to collaborating (Fuji and Nikon are fools if they squashed down the proposal! And of course L should welcome anybody who wishes to join). 

Now what is in it for Canon?

Well, Canon has had a bumpy road on the path to mirrorless domination, they're at risk they might not achieve this like they did with EF. 

Canon had a false start with the now soon to be dead end EF-M mount, this is going to come back to bite them. 

Sony E Mount has a massive head start over Canon. 

Fujifilm clearly is doing better in the APS-C world than Canon's APS-C. 

Nikon is part of the historical Duopoly, so of course is going to be a threat for Canon, and so far I'd argue Nikon has been doing a better job here in their roll out (certain when you look at sales of bodies only sorted by best sellers / most popular on B&H / Adorama  then Nikon mirrorless is ranking strongly vs Canon. Of course with the Canon R5 /R6 pairing I bet Canon expects they'll race ahead of Nikon, but Nikon won't be standing still either. Am sure in late 2020 / early 2021 we'll see a gangbuster release from Nikon in response)

Who is going to be #1 / #2 in the mirrorless world 10yrs from now is still very much up in the air! Could be anybody. 

Thus I find it very understandable that Canon could be considering wild card strategies to help RF Mount get a jump over the competition, and if Komodo is a massive success then that will go a long way to cementing RF Mount as a defacto standard in the videography/cinema world. 

And Canon in the video world isn't really a direct direct competitor for RED like some others. RED's direct competitors are more like ARRI (who RED are trying to attack from below) and Kinefinity (who is attacking RED themselves from below). 

While Canon's direct competitors are Sony (the classic F3/FS700 vs C300mk1, FS100 vs C100, then FS7 vs C300mk2, C200 vs FS5, etc) or Panasonic (C200/C300mk2 vs Varicam LT / EVA1).

So pairing up with RED just for Komodo has relatively little downside, and a potentially significant upside. 

If I was running Canon, then RED using RF Mount for Komodo makes so much sense that RED doesn't even have to offer anything back in exchange. 

 

9 hours ago, currensheldon said:

So Canon gets compressed raw (though only to about 5:1) and Red gets mounts and sensor help. Wonder what else is going on. 

It is already legal to use 5:1 compression of raw, it is 6:1 compression and beyond which is covered by RED's Patent. 

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7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

RED wants to target a more "consumer" market with Komodo, which means choosing a mirrorless mount is sensible

Difficult not to agree although RED have consistently claimed that Komodo is primarily a niche camera to support other RED cameras (drone, crash, gimbal etc.) and is not intended as an A camera for those outside the Holy Circle. 
 

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5 hours ago, Snowfun said:

Difficult not to agree although RED have consistently claimed that Komodo is primarily a niche camera to support other RED cameras (drone, crash, gimbal etc.) and is not intended as an A camera for those outside the Holy Circle. 
 

Yeah, I was thinking about this.  Part of me thinks that even if they internally recognize the opportunity of marketing this camera to a new segment of the market, they’d never pitch it as a more affordable, lower tier option because they don’t want to erode their high end brand image.  Marketing it solely as a crash-cam/drone camera for high end work makes sense in that way.  On the other hand they were also known as disruptors in the past so I could see where they could also market the camera as such.

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2 hours ago, Elagabalus said:

RED's patent is for compressed RAW. Doesn't really matter whether it's used in a camera, a recorder or a phone. Atomos and others have to pay RED to include ProRes RAW.

Lots and lots of people have thought external raw is ok, doesn't violate RED's patents. 
For example:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/08/16/apple-challenges-red-over-raw-patent-legitimacy/

Quote

 I mentioned earlier that ProRes Raw is only offered on Atomos recorders recording externally over SDI and HDMI. The external part is important as the patent doesn’t allow internal recording with RAW. 


But then of course Atomos did put out that press release about a partnership with RED, but the details were skimpy, what exactly is this about?? Their ProResRAW development and announcement was long before that announcement, but perhaps RED just came late to the game and bullied them into signing. I guess changing people's opinion that it is "external only".

 

3 hours ago, Elagabalus said:

Sony does uncompressed RAW, not compressed. Again, doesn't matter whether it's inside the camera or outside the camera, as long as it's not compressed RAW, they'll be in the clear. 

Sony has compressed raw, their Sony X-OCN. But the compression rate is quite mild, and doesn't cross the magical 6:1 ratio covered by RED's patent. 
 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Good for RED.  It is about time they delivered an affordable product... I'm still mad that they did not deliver 3k for $3k as promised.  I hope RED will deliver 6k for $6k.

Anyways, I thought the SNL Brad Pitt monologue looked nice, so I imagine it will be some people's A camera.

I am guessing it will be back ordered, then RED will have supply chain issues, then RED will decide they can no longer afford to sell it for $6k due to the supply chain issues, so they will decide to stop selling it all together once it starts eating into the higher end product line sales.  That said, I am hoping I am wrong... but I am not holding my breath...

Here's the original RED Scarlet 3k footage and then they never release the camera... as they said they wanted to focus on being a high in camera manufacturer... well this footage looked highend to me... (except for the pre-release price of 3k). They could have sold it for $9k, but still not enough money for them apparently...

 

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6 hours ago, FranciscoB said:

image.thumb.png.e22fb89b3b606b07ee08a2df48a7c8d6.png

 

RED always finds a way to justify their sales and marketing decisions.

 

BTW, I was at NAB the year RED first announced the RED One,  before the show opened and could have been number 3 on the wait list for the RED One, but it did not make sense for me to purchase then and it doesn't make sense for me to purchase a new RED camera now.

I didn't trust them then, I don't trust them now and I am glad I have never invested in any RED camera ever.

6k for $6k may have been my first RED cameras purchase depending on the performance, lens mount compatibility and total cost of ownership. It sounds like that will not be an option if and when production is ramped up...

I am more of a 3k for $3k guy anyway... So the future for me is probably 6k for $2k, if and when there is a m4/3 mount version or higher end version with swappable lens mount.

BTW - I don't hate RED. I love the RED company that delivers 3k for $3k and 6k for $6k.  That company gets what people want: performance and value.

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