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Andrew Reid

Nikon Z6 features 4K N-LOG, 10bit HDMI output and 120fps 1080p

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3 minutes ago, MdB said:

I completely agree. Basically Nikon have released a 'me-too' product of a replica of what is eating their lunch. Not such a bad choice really, in that it will stem the tide of defectors. I just get somewhat annoyed about the implication that because it is Nikon it is therefore automatically much improved in areas such as ergonomics. Both Canon and Nikon have now essentially copied the Sony design and yet Sony is still panned as being 'universally known to be terrible'... If they are so terrible, why are the big two outright copying them? 

I've no idea (other than an even more expensive Z8 that has what they've left off this one included) why they would do it.

They clearly didn't watch enough of The Godfather when they were coming up with how to create a mirrorless version of a D850.

2geo9b.jpg.8841e2a99d8b4c5f51de6bf9c9540621.jpg

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

At $1999 i find the Z6 extremely compelling.. however at $3400 i find they could have added at the very least an extra card slot to the Z7. Something tells me an Z8/9 will probably be the 'pro' models in a year or two time.

As annoying as it is, they've clearly left some parts out like mode dial, AF switch, lock image, dual card slots etc to segment their DSLRs from MILCs. 

Nikon may not have a cine cam line to protect but they do have a DSLR one..

As to comparison with Sony A7 line.. well the weather sealing, LCD/EVF resolution, top OLED display, 2 front function buttons, dedicated iso button, grip, touchscreen menus, right-hand menu button etc.. do set it apart ergonomically and build wise. Add to that 10-bit 4:2:2 out, Nikon color science & potentially superior IBIS and it's a slam-dunk to me.

Canon are going to have to go all out if they plan on taking lead now..

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IS it just me or the new new Nikon z cameras are oddly close enough in features to Samsung NX1?

there was a rumour back in the day regarding Nikon had bought Samsung tech when they decided to exit the camera market, remember that?

Now look at the similarities between cameras feature ( of course apart of the sensor size):

- codec bitrate, almost the same as nx1 after hack

- rezolution and fps both in 4k and 1080p - just keep in mind z cameras launching 5 years later than nx1 :)))))

- even the lenses are having the same design and front size 72mm. Even the neame is the same "S" line 

and there are more feature to look into but i don't wanna sound paranoic.

maybe is just me though! what do you think?

2 minutes ago, Django said:

At $1999 i find the Z6 extremely compelling.. however at $3400 i find they could have added at the very least an extra card slot to the Z7. Something tells me an Z8/9 will probably be the 'pro' models in a year or two time.

As annoying as it is, they've clearly left some parts out like mode dial, AF switch, lock image, dual card slots etc to segment their DSLRs from MILCs. 

Nikon may not have a cine cam line to protect but they do have a DSLR one..

As to comparison with Sony A7 line.. well the weather sealing, LCD/EVF resolution, top OLED display, 2 front function buttons, dedicated iso button, grip, touchscreen menus, right-hand menu button etc.. do set it apart ergonomically and build wise. Add to that 10-bit 4:2:2 out, Nikon color science & potentially superior IBIS and it's a slam-dunk to me.

Canon are going to have to go all out if they plan on taking lead now..

it's a shame that the 10bits are just external and there is no 60p in 4k. That would have been the perfect combo. I am still struggling to upgrade my 5 years old Nx1, apart of the sensor size.

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Internal codec is your typical 8-bit H264. No info on bitrate but assume similar to D850 so around 150mbps in 4K.

As for battery life, grip will be manditory for video shooting imo (unless you don't mind swapping batteries):

The MB-N10 Multi-Power Battery Pack that is currently in development will hold two EN-EL15b, effectively increasing the number of shots possible and/or movie recording time by approximately 1.8×. It will provide the same level of dust and drip resistance as the Z 7 and Z 6, and will support USB charging using the EH-7P Charging AC Adapter. Information regarding the release of this product will be announced at a later date.

 

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1 minute ago, Django said:

Nikon don't have a cine cam line to protect but they do have a DSLR one..

Which just makes matters all the more confusing when you have them at exactly the same price in the case of the D850 and the Z7.

If I'm looking to swap my D810 for example (which I am) then I'm now being asked to decide between the camera and the spec. Except its a bit more than that because no way would I, or anyone else who has even a modest Nikon lens collection, be looking at buying any of those new 'meh' lenses so we wouldn't feel the benefit (if any) of the new mount until some vague point in the future. So we are also reliant on the adapter giving 'as native' performance on our existing lenses in the meantime otherwise we will be suffering from inferior AF.

There just isn't the incentive there to give up what they're asking us to give up and especially not at the same price.

But I'm just one (small) part of their target market so they will hopefully fare better with the rest of it !

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13 minutes ago, Django said:

As to comparison with Sony A7 line..

 

13 minutes ago, Django said:

well the weather sealing

More gaskets I guess most people usually think is better, so give them that one. 

14 minutes ago, Django said:

LCD/EVF resolution

The EVF is a Sony EVF, made by Sony, used in the Sonys. Don't see how that makes the Nikon better? What's the magnification of the Nikon?

 I'm sure Nikon fanboys will write a love letter about how Nikon are really the design masterminds behind them, but realistically they are Sony, just like the sensor. 

16 minutes ago, Django said:

2 front function buttons

Sony has two top custom buttons which I would argue are more useful. I almost never use the front buttons on any camera I've owned with them. 

17 minutes ago, Django said:

dedicated iso button

Sony has dedicated ISO wheel. Sony wins. 

17 minutes ago, Django said:

grip

They look the same. Unless you're talking about the bell end bit, which is bigger but hardly constitutes a bigger / better grip (considering you don't actually hold onto that bit). 

18 minutes ago, Django said:

touchscreen menus

My Canons have these and are almost exclusively useless. 

19 minutes ago, Django said:

right-hand menu button etc..

Pretty sure any button can be a menus button on the Sony. Is a right-hand menu button more ergonomically correct than a right-hand play button? Not so sure. Seems like a swap the is more or less for the sake of it. 

22 minutes ago, Django said:

do set it apart ergonomically and build wise

I still don't see the main difference ergonomically. Or even any meaningful advantage. Build wise maybe, haven't held it in my hand. I've never felt the Nikons in general to be anything to write home about build wise, I actually think they feel quite cheap. Chunky. Many people seem to like that and equate it to 'good'. Again I am sure a bunch of fanboys will explain how non-toy like the Nikon automatically is... because Nikon. 

25 minutes ago, Django said:

Nikon color science

Ugh! Another throw away phrase that is overused and misunderstood. Nikon have ZERO experience Log or even REC.709 etc. Pleasing (to some) Nikon colours is what it should be credited for at best. 

27 minutes ago, Django said:

Canon are going to have to go all out if they plan on taking lead now..

I bought a 5D IV knowing full well this was coming. It's release has had zero impact. 

19 minutes ago, Django said:

Internal codec is your typical 8-bit H264. No info on bitrate but assume similar to D850 so around 150mbps in 4K.

According to DPR: 

"Up to 100Mbps H.264 8-bit internal video capture"

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Lol.. funny how this announcement has got all the Sony/Canon fanboys panties in a brunch.. grasping at straws & desperately trying to find flaws..

FYI :

viewfinder.jpg

Take an ultra-high resolution QUAD VGA display, add Nikon optics for magnification, including Aspherical lens elements and Fluorine coating, and you’ve got an EVF experience unlike any before it. Minimal lag and blackout, 100% frame coverage (approx.), corner-to-corner clarity and sharp magnification. It has the feel of an optical viewfinder, and you can use it for both stills and videos.

34 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Which just makes matters all the more confusing when you have them at exactly the same price in the case of the D850 and the Z7.

If I'm looking to swap my D810 for example (which I am) then I'm now being asked to decide between the camera and the spec. Except its a bit more than that because no way would I, or anyone else who has even a modest Nikon lens collection, be looking at buying any of those new 'meh' lenses so we wouldn't feel the benefit (if any) of the new mount until some vague point in the future. So we are also reliant on the adapter giving 'as native' performance on our existing lenses in the meantime otherwise we will be suffering from inferior AF.

There just isn't the incentive there to give up what they're asking us to give up and especially not at the same price.

But I'm just one (small) part of their target market so they will hopefully fare better with the rest of it !

Pretty sure Nikon's plan is for you to upgrade to a D850.. and maybe add a Z6/7 on the side for weekends ;) 

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22 minutes ago, Django said:

Lol.. funny how this announcement has got all the Sony/Canon fanboys panties in a brunch.. grasping at straws & desperately trying to find flaws..

Ah yes, the ultimate comeback. Fanboys with panties in a bunch. How about fanboys where the penny hasn't dropped that this is at best a Sony clone. I thought Nikon was a great innovator? Where is it? I though Nikon were so much better for pros? Where are the dual slots? I thought they had so much better ergonomics because they don't make 'toys', yet no one can actually point to them? Shouldn't they have a CLEAR physical advantage that users can point to? Not some ineffable 'oh but Nikon...'

These cameras look fine, nothing more. There is nothing new, at all, about them. Other than it's a mirrorless Nikon that doesn't have a piddly 1" sensor in it. That's not innovation. 

25 minutes ago, Django said:

Take an ultra-high resolution QUAD VGA display, add Nikon optics for magnification, including Aspherical lens elements and Fluorine coating, and you’ve got an EVF experience unlike any before it. Minimal lag and blackout, 100% frame coverage (approx.), corner-to-corner clarity and sharp magnification. It has the feel of an optical viewfinder, and you can use it for both stills and videos.

Sorry what are you selling here? Some marketing fluff. Goodo. Now I know that Nikon wants you think the EVF is their own. Excellent. How is magnification sharp? That doesn't even make sense. Feel of an optical viewfinder? So when Sony had the exact same viewfinder on the A9 nearly 2 years ago and all the Nikon fanboys claimed that EVFs were rubbish and nothing like their (relatively speaking: poor) OVFs are going to now claim they are so magical? 

I find it ironic that Nikon talked about their innovation and 100 years of experience in their teaser videos and started with a shot of their S series (abandoned mount, but Nikon don't do that kind of thing ;) which was a clone of the Contax rangefinders. Now their experience and innovation and they're launching a Sony clone. I guess that's just their way...

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Its amusing to see people call any ILC that has no mirror in front of sensor, a Sony clone!

Leave Nikon aside for a moment, most of the new tech or ideas introduced in this industry in recent years, didn't come from Sony. PDAF wasn't Sony invention, they licensed it. and Canon delivered a better version. IBIS was also a licensed tech, and Olympus created a much better iteration of it. EVF wasn't new thing, and Leica was the one who showed how the next generation of it should be. in optics, m4/3 members were true pioneers, and for large sensor glass, it was Sigma who made the bold actions. In video, most of what we now consider as must-have features, determined by Panasonic. In color science, and also the joy of photography, Fuji was the real hero. 

Sony is good in two segments: making sensors, and marketing. Both unrelated to its imaging unit. 

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1 hour ago, Django said:

At $1999 i find the Z6 extremely compelling.. however at $3400 i find they could have added at the very least an extra card slot to the Z7. Something tells me an Z8/9 will probably be the 'pro' models in a year or two time.

As annoying as it is, they've clearly left some parts out like mode dial, AF switch, lock image, dual card slots etc to segment their DSLRs from MILCs. 

Nikon may not have a cine cam line to protect but they do have a DSLR one..

As to comparison with Sony A7 line.. well the weather sealing, LCD/EVF resolution, top OLED display, 2 front function buttons, dedicated iso button, grip, touchscreen menus, right-hand menu button etc.. do set it apart ergonomically and build wise. Add to that 10-bit 4:2:2 out, Nikon color science & potentially superior IBIS and it's a slam-dunk to me.

Canon are going to have to go all out if they plan on taking lead now..


Yes, the price leap from Z6 to Z7 doesn't seem like it is worthwhile for many people just to get a resolution boost if all you care about is video. 

Unless the Z7 has insanely better video AF with all its extra AF points.

 

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I used to own the d750 and still haven’t found a nicer more organic image than it produced in 1080p. And the motion and colors were lovely. It was just a tad too soft, and the lack of ibis, the 15 minutes internal record limit and the sheer size of it made it too cumbersome and unpractical.

The poor battery life of the Z-series and the single card slot are huge drawbacks with regards to usability. But if the image is nice enough I will still be tempted, even though it seems to be an A7rii with Nikon color science.

 

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@MdB you sound visibly skeptical & upset. not here to argue with you, just bringing on facts as they appear.

Some more tidbits:

Capture cinematic 16:9 4K UHD/30p video in full-frame using the total width and resolution of the Z 6’s backside-illuminated sensor. Full-pixel readout for sharper 4K footage with rich information equivalent to 6K. Clean output at high ISO. Zero crop factor with full-frame NIKKOR Z and F-Mount NIKKOR lenses. Focus Peaking in both 4K and 1080p recording. Simultaneous 8MP stills*.

Wire-free to a Mac or PC.

Connect to a Mac or PC over Wi-Fi and wirelessly transfer RAW, JPEG and movie files. Two modes available: Camera Access Point mode, for connecting directly to a PC, and Station (STA) mode, for connecting over a router.

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image.thumb.png.1676b04a265cca7dbdfdabfdf31ca041.png

5 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

I used to own the d750 and still haven’t found a nicer more organic image than it produced in 1080p. And the motion and colors were lovely. It was just a tad too soft, and the lack of ibis, the 15 minutes internal record limit and the sheer size of it made it too cumbersome and unpractical.

Seems like the new Z6 "fixes" nearly all of those things about the D750

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12 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

image.thumb.png.1676b04a265cca7dbdfdabfdf31ca041.png

Seems like the new Z6 "fixes" nearly all of those things about the D750

Maybe so. If it weren’t for the 15 minute recording limit in 4K (from what ive heard) otherwise it would still be fifteen minutes because of battery life. I hate handgrips and rigging the camera out like some Frankenstein just to take anywhere near the level of usability of a gh5 for example. But we’ll see...

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1 hour ago, Django said:

Take an ultra-high resolution QUAD VGA display, add Nikon optics for magnification, including Aspherical lens elements and Fluorine coating, and you’ve got an EVF experience unlike any before it. Minimal lag and blackout, 100% frame coverage (approx.), corner-to-corner clarity and sharp magnification. It has the feel of an optical viewfinder, and you can use it for both stills and videos.

Yup, Nikon waited a long time for this, they're not going to want to screw it up. 

 

1 hour ago, MdB said:

Ah yes, the ultimate comeback. Fanboys with panties in a bunch. How about fanboys where the penny hasn't dropped that this is at best a Sony clone.

For everyone on EOSHD we should be glad that Nikon gave 10bit external and didn't cap it at max 8bit in any form like Sony. 

That doesn't sound like a "Sony clone" to me. 

43 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said:

Its amusing to see people call any ILC that has no mirror in front of sensor, a Sony clone!

Leave Nikon aside for a moment, most of the new tech or ideas introduced in this industry in recent years, didn't come from Sony. PDAF wasn't Sony invention, they licensed it. and Canon delivered a better version. IBIS was also a licensed tech, and Olympus created a much better iteration of it. EVF wasn't new thing, and Leica was the one who showed how the next generation of it should be. in optics, m4/3 members were true pioneers, and for large sensor glass, it was Sigma who made the bold actions. In video, most of what we now consider as must-have features, determined by Panasonic. In color science, and also the joy of photography, Fuji was the real hero. 

Sony is good in two segments: making sensors, and marketing. Both unrelated to its imaging unit. 

Nailed it.

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Honestly the biggest disappointment for me is the lack of 3D tracking in photo, it's there but takes much longer than their DSLR's to use. Battery also seems like a gigantic issue again. Buffer is also way to small :(

I honestly have no idea why they would leave out dual card slots, they HAD to have seen the blowback Sony saw with that for years and that they would be directly compared to the A7III. 

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My two cents: at first sight, Nikon did right.

A lot of people are comparing the Z7 to the D850 (with very toughtful - as usual - remarks like @BTM_Pix), but it is not their target - they aim directly the A7R III. The A7R III have a mode dial? Done it. The Sony does not have a drive mode dial? Gotcha. It is much more a D750/D610 with a higher resolution sensor. The price is too high, though - I guess that we will see a drop to US$ 3200 soon. 

The real pro cameras will for sure appear down the line - probably with more professional controls, ironing the problems that these 2 first attempts shows. And they have the exactly sales numbers for each tier of cameras, and probably enthusiast tier (Nikon even divides their DSLR in "entry-level", "enthusiast" and "professional" in their website) have the best balance to start. Enthusiasts are (my guess) the people who are more susceptible to try new technologies - amateurs are more focused on price, professionals are focused in a reliable and no workflow / handling disruptive things.

Z6 looks very right - price clashing with the A7 III.

Both are clearly stills focused - stills people still (no pun intended) buys much more cameras than the video crown. And again, their target was the Sonys in video too - hence just needed to equal than. I was not expecting at all 4k60, and I think that enabling 10-bit 4:2:2 in HDMI was a very clever move - an extra spec that Sonys don't have (yet - could a firmware upgrade enable it?), less demanding internal specs, and for an item that only really cares to specialized people. For enthusiasts, good color OOC is much more valuable (my guess too).

The F adapter performance will be very important , especially for stills- if it is ok, could be a major boost. About the top LCD: since only used mirrorless, never tought about it, until other day that I've grabbed an old S5Pro for nothing, and now I'm fond for it :) . And a lot of people associate a top LCD as "pro" cameras - just have to see that buzz that the top LCDs in Fuji X-H1 and Panny G9 generated.

The flaws that I see:

- I was never a DSLR user, hence I can't say if the controls are ok. Really strange to not have a AF mode switch - maybe in this tier it is not considerar important (or, more probably, "since the Sonys do not have it either...")?
- Single card slot. They should have gone to the XQD + SD route, if they want to move to XQD. It is a thing that Sonys have, they don't.
- Price of the Z7 is totally wrong. Should be the same of the A7R III, at least.

But, at least until now, I think that they striked a very good balance for a start. Let's wait to see the real world tests - normally the second batch of the reviews, after the first rushed ones "to be the first to publish".

Oh, forgot to mention the use of the current batteries, huge flaw. Ok, understandable in their point of view to cater the current Nikon users, and the "keep compatibility" history of the Nikons, but Sony showed the way with the Z batteries.

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