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Nikon FF Mirrorless

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21 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

Haha love how big that mount looks! I think Nikon are desperately trying not to make the same mistake they did with the F-mount size :)
 

Medium format sensor prices will fall drastically in the decades to come. 

And their new mount should be future proofed enough to last them decades. 

So I hope they can squeeze in a medium format sensor? Even if just a crop one like the ones currently 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

It's funny two weeks ago I was about to place an other for the Sony A7 III after buying the EOSHD Pro Colors and trying it out on a rented A7 III.  I started hearing about 2 Nikon mirrorless camera coming out. I decided to put my order on hold to see what Nikon will bring to the table. 

I love the Nikon color science but one thing is gonna be my deciding factor; AF options especially video auto focus. In my opinion Nikon has to bring it at least close to Sony to convince more people (at least me) to consider what they are offering. 

The D750 is my go to camera for most of my work (Stills) but after trying the A7 III, the light weight with the lenses I used and AF was what made me ready to order mine to replace the D750 and be my hybrid camera especially for travels. 

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What a news! waiting for A7SIII and now Nikon. I didn't find a good replacement for my NX1, but perhaps now the choice between these camera's. ... And yes, I can consider GH5, but I do also photographing and NX1 is still superb as hybrid.

 

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In fact the big lens mount might be to put this camera in a league of its own, not the technology of the camera but the lens. As many are suggesting on Nikon Rumors is that the teaser is hitting about very very good low light capability and not about the camera itself but the lens capabilities it will give Nikon like these 0.9 and 1.2 lens patent. https://nikonrumors.com/2017/09/07/new-nikon-patents-nikkor-52mm-f0-9-and-36mm-f1-2-full-frame-mirrorless-lenses.aspx/

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1 hour ago, tupp said:

If Nikon is smart, the new mount will have a shorter flange focal distance than the E-mount/EF-M-mount/Fuji-X-mount.

That's not knowing Nikon and in its history. They take pride in there lens design and heritage and they consider them foremost as an optical company. They don't want you to adapt Sony or whatever company lens, they want their native lens  on their camera. The worst thing is that they have already adapter for the Nikon fmount and you to use their lens or to a lesser extent Nikon mount compatible lens. If the adapter is good, it might be better in some way as you could adapt 50+ years of Nikon glass at worst for them all the zeiss, tamron, tokina sigma lens that can use their advance metering and auto focus.

42 minutes ago, Django said:

I got a good feeling on this one.. I just hope for our sake they don't drop the ball as usual on video features.. imagine 10-bit, N-Log, HFR & good AF. would be game over as far as i'm concerned!

I have been a bit disappointed by Nikon video feature that I am a bit dubious. My benchmark would be a Nikon D850 level video spec. So no 10 bit and log profile. But I guess a very good autofocus, peaking etc will give a very good all rounder, with very good 4k and 1080p, with great low light (even better with the 24 megapixel model) and above all else Nikon colours. In overall a very very good photo/video hybrid camera but spec sheet wise not the top of the line.

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6 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

In fact the big lens mount might be to put this camera in a league of its own, not the technology of the camera but the lens. As many are suggesting on Nikon Rumors is that the teaser is hitting about very very good low light capability and not about the camera itself but the lens capabilities it will give Nikon like these 0.9 and 1.2 lens patent. https://nikonrumors.com/2017/09/07/new-nikon-patents-nikkor-52mm-f0-9-and-36mm-f1-2-full-frame-mirrorless-lenses.aspx/


Yes, I suspect Nikon doesn't want to back itself into a corner like it did with the Nikon F mount. As that is why they couldn't put out the f1.2 lenses Canon did (except for that one old manual focus 50mm f1.2 which Nikon had)

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@DBounce @Drew Allegre @Lenscamera @keessie65 - let's all settle back and let the manufacturers bid for our money!!  A7III vs Pocket 2 vs A7SIII vs Nikon FF ML vs Canon FF ML!!

Personally I am also 80% of the way to just buying the A7III right now, so they will have to make something really special to beat it for me.  
I think the Pocket 2 is ruled out for me because of the crop factor and lack of stabilisation.  On the A7III the 24-105 F4 is double stabilised and when combined with the crop mode and clear image zoom there would need to be a  m43 lens that was 12-120mm F2 zoom to keep the zoom range and DoF.  I think the Canon and Nikon aren't likely to be able to match the zoom range either, although I'd be happily proven wrong!
The A7SIII will likely be better but will be much more expensive, which combined with the premium prices for Sony lenses rules it out.

10 hours ago, Drew Allegre said:

I'm excited to see what Nikon has to offer.  I've already switched from a 5DIII to an a7III, at least partly because I wanted to divest some DSLR gear before these new Nikon and Canon systems hit.  Imagine...a full featured mirrorless camera with proper weather sealing! ;)

The A7III doesn't have proper weather sealing?

The website says:

"Major buttons and dials are sealed. Sealing is provided throughout the body to minimise entry of dust and moisture" and "Not guaranteed to be 100% dust and moisture proof."

I'm new to weather sealing, so what does this really mean?  Don't shoot in the rain?  Don't shoot in heavy rain?  Be careful of sprinklers?

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Medium format sensor prices will fall drastically in the decades to come. 

And their new mount should be future proofed enough to last them decades. 

So I hope they can squeeze in a medium format sensor? Even if just a crop one like the ones currently 

I know we all tend to get our hopes up and then have manufacturers disappoint us, but one thing that would be incredible from a medium format sensor is full-sensor readout with no binning for 4K video.  The Sonys already downsample from 6K to 4K, but debayered 6K isn't full-res 4K video so if anyone steps up with 8K downsampling that would be spectacular!

Or, probably more likely, it should give the ability to do a more significant digital punch-in, which would be awesome as well.

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12 minutes ago, kye said:

I know we all tend to get our hopes up and then have manufacturers disappoint us, but one thing that would be incredible from a medium format sensor is full-sensor readout with no binning for 4K video.  The Sonys already downsample from 6K to 4K, but debayered 6K isn't full-res 4K video so if anyone steps up with 8K downsampling that would be spectacular!

Or, probably more likely, it should give the ability to do a more significant digital punch-in, which would be awesome as well.

Not going to happen in the next five years, but who knows in twenty or forty years time?? 

Which is what I feel Nikon needs to be prepared for when thinking about and designing their new mirrorless mount. (just look at how long the current Nikon F mount has lasted!)

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38 minutes ago, kye said:

The A7III doesn't have proper weather sealing?

The website says:

"Major buttons and dials are sealed. Sealing is provided throughout the body to minimise entry of dust and moisture" and "Not guaranteed to be 100% dust and moisture proof."

I'm new to weather sealing, so what does this really mean?  Don't shoot in the rain?  Don't shoot in heavy rain?  Be careful of sprinklers?

I think it has a ways to go before I'd feel comfortable even in a light drizzle, tbh.

Here's a battery door issue:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7iii/sony-a7iii-battery-door-weather-sealing/

And then this with the A7RIII:

 

I moved to the a7III now instead of waiting for Canon/Nikon mirrorless, because I'm moving away from shooting paid work and more to personal stuff.  I figure by moving now, I'm maximizing the value on some of my higher ticket DSLR items (keeping plenty too).  In the a7III, I'm also getting a pretty incredible "use it right now" tool that fits the mix of shooting that I'm doing these days.  While I do long for 10 bit or raw, the 8 bit workflow and quality are admittedly sufficient for filming my kid trawling around on his balance bike.

I'm personally hoping that Canon will (if not a home run) get an extra base hit with their FF mirrorless.  I love Canon, and I loved the 5D3 and ML.  I just wish they'd put a "sensible" 4k codec in whatever their FF mirrorless camera ends up being.

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9 minutes ago, mercer said:

I hope Canon doesn’t make the same mistake as Nikon and introduce a new mount on their FF mirrorless. Or if they do, maybe they’ll introduce a new and improved FD Mount.

Purely speculating. But I think it is very likely that Canon will put FF in its existing EF-M for APSC. The throat diameter of EF-M is 47mm which is wider than Sony E mount. This would also give an (ongoing) upgrade path from APSC to FF for mirrorless buyers.

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2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

vs Kinefinity Terra 4K vs Z Cam E2 vs Cinemartin Fran 8K! lol

well, ignoring the Red Weapon competitor you slipped in there, these are really Pocket 2 competitors not A7 or CaNikon competitors.  I think the only reason that the Pocket 2 is an A7 competitor is because you get RAW 4K60 and it's cheaper.  Otherwise they're really for different markets.

For me, the A7III is almost the perfect camera, but my brain thinks "yes, A7III is wonderful but the Pocket 2 has RAW 4K60 and the Pocket1 looks gorgeous in so many shorts that the colour science must be really easy to work with and I know the A7III can do similar DR but it will require work to learn to grade it, and I know that I normally hand-hold but 4K60 RAW!!  Maybe I can learn to shoot films completely differently?  I can learn to use tripods, and vloggers seem to use their gorilla pods as tripods and do static shots all the time.  Of course the Sony 24-105 with crop and digital zoom is the equivalent of a m43 12-120 F2 lens which doesn't exist or would cost the earth so I'd have to get primes and then I'd have to shoot much slower and make quite different films, but fark me 4k60 RAW!!  Maybe I can become a completely different person because of this camera???"

It's kind of like at school when you'd see a gorgeous girl who liked football players and you'd think "maybe if I changed my entire personality I'd have a shot??" 😂😂😂

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I hope those prices @Django quoted from Nikon Rumors includes a lens, or they are dead in the water to start with.

I believe they included a 24-70 F4?

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Not going to happen in the next five years, but who knows in twenty or forty years time?? 

Which is what I feel Nikon needs to be prepared for when thinking about and designing their new mirrorless mount. (just look at how long the current Nikon F mount has lasted!)

Well, Moores law states that computer power doubles every 18 months or so.  If we assume this is true then it means that it will take 3 years to go from 4K to 8K processing.  Even if thermal solutions and marketing and investment don't keep pace, it will still be within 5-10.  Think about how long it took to go from SD to HD to FullHD and to 4K.  SD to HD was 2.25x pixels, HD to FullHD was 2.25x pixels, FullHD to 4K was 4x pixels.

Plus we already have a 6K to 4K downsample in a "base model camera".

History says that progress is slower than we'd like, but steady and faster than we predict.

1 hour ago, Drew Allegre said:

I think it has a ways to go before I'd feel comfortable even in a light drizzle, tbh.

 

I moved to the a7III now instead of waiting for Canon/Nikon mirrorless, because I'm moving away from shooting paid work and more to personal stuff.  I figure by moving now, I'm maximizing the value on some of my higher ticket DSLR items (keeping plenty too).  In the a7III, I'm also getting a pretty incredible "use it right now" tool that fits the mix of shooting that I'm doing these days.  While I do long for 10 bit or raw, the 8 bit workflow and quality are admittedly sufficient for filming my kid trawling around on his balance bike.

I'm personally hoping that Canon will (if not a home run) get an extra base hit with their FF mirrorless.  I love Canon, and I loved the 5D3 and ML.  I just wish they'd put a "sensible" 4k codec in whatever their FF mirrorless camera ends up being.

Holy wow!  That video spiked my blood pressure!!  I'm probably a little bit too careful with cameras (although I did take my iPhone8 swimming at the beach deliberately, so there's that).

Yeah, the A7III is just about perfect for non-commercial uses, even if you're a real connoisseur.

I am hoping Canon hits a home run with their FF too, but I'm not holding my breath.  The issue with their codecs is the processing, and unless they put a video DIGIC processor in there its unlikely we'll get a sensible codec.  Personally, I'm secretly hoping they put a stills DIGIC and a video DIGIC in there.  They have dual processors in their high end cameras so it's possible, and they've put a thermal solution in the XC10 which has a very small body so fans don't mean huge size, however fans kill weather sealing and the first FF ML offering may be aimed at their core customers instead of their evaporating share of the (tiny) DSLR video market.

1 hour ago, Robert Collins said:

Purely speculating. But I think it is very likely that Canon will put FF in its existing EF-M for APSC. The throat diameter of EF-M is 47mm which is wider than Sony E mount. This would also give an (ongoing) upgrade path from APSC to FF for mirrorless buyers.

If they do go EF-M then lets hope they get the naming right so it's clear which EF-M lenses are FF and which are APSC - unlike Sony which is a fricking maze to try and understand with two lens mounts and two sensor sizes but lenses in all 4 combinations!

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15 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Good news, Canon will hopefully follow up shortly. And hopefully Magic Lantern will as well ^^(if they do, I hope Canon will use Cfast on their camera, so Magic lantern could do really crazy things with those speeds).

Last time I checked Canon said they would sue ML if they tried to release more builds hence why there's been nothing for the 80D, 5Dmk4, and 1DXMK2. Canon still wants you to spend $7K (C200) for good video features.

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10 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

Last time I checked Canon said they would sue ML if they tried to release more builds hence why there's been nothing for the 80D, 5Dmk4, and 1DXMK2. Canon still wants you to spend $7K (C200) for good video features.

*sigh*  I don't blame canon for wanting you to spend more money, I blame them for assuming that if I want good video (a nice codec and ILC) I'm willing to carry around a huge camera body.

I know that some people don't think the C200 or C100 are large, but when you look at the A7 series, or their XC10, they're enormous.

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