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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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8 hours ago, Chrad said:

I definitely prefer the softer, less digital look of the P4K image, really nice. The noise levels are mostly due to playing to the weaknesses of the GH5s though, by underexposing in V-Log.

Both videos are both ETTR towards the sky.

The Pocket 4K simply has way better dynamic range.

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6 minutes ago, deezid said:

Both videos are both ETTR towards the sky.

The Pocket 4K simply has way better dynamic range.

Correct Dennis : ) This camera is the best bang for the buck. I am just upset with the brand. Andrew was fully right on that one. I've been in touch with several people inside the company. Grant Petty should address all that. Their policies and lack of vision for a noteworthy business much different than broadcast realm so to this segment, affordable cinema cameras or hybrids ballpark, simply suck. My only complaint.

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35 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Correct Dennis : ) This camera is the best bang for the buck. I am just upset with the brand. Andrew was fully right on that one. I've been in touch with several people inside the company. Grant Petty should address all that. Their policies and lack of vision for a noteworthy business much different than broadcast realm so to this segment, affordable cinema cameras or hybrids ballpark, simply suck. My only complaint.

Policies and lack of vision? 

Andrew is upset because he didn't get an invite to an event. That is the only reason. Before that, he was looking forward to the camera despite knowing that there was no IBIS, No flappy screen and no usable AF. We all knew it!

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

Maybe only with a brand which is still lazy in several aspects and old school when market is trending somewhere else.

And which market are you pigeon hole-ing the Pocket4K into? It was never meant to compete with Hybrid or mirrorless cameras for travelling or your mobile phone like you keep comparing it to. Blackmagic have always been about Image quality and affordability and are the leaders of the market at this price point and even way above. They lead the market in image quality in a camera this small, they lead the market in image quality at this price, they have had 10bit in a tiny camera for years and mirrorless are only now catching up so how can you say they are 'old school and lack vision? I know this makes me sound like a BMD rep (as Andrew suspects) but It's just getting tiring here on the Pocket4K thread constantly hearing people complain about things that we have known all along and expecting the camera to be something it was never intended to be. 

@Andrew Reid I started a thread where people could complain all they like about how the Pocket4K isn't a mirrorless hybrid. It would have been nice to have all this complaint somewhere and kept this thread for useful information. Why did you close that thread? The conversation had already started on it. Now, for useful information here, people have to trawl through pages and pages of useless argument. Really disappointed in your 'my way or the highway' dictator-like attitude Andrew. 

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Why so harsh man? Is that really needed? What do you know about my experience with this company?

For your information, I've dealt 28 camera units with Blackmagic now. These days... Never saw so improper attitude coming from a similar industry player in my 25 years of business. Real world. Period.

Business policies and lack of industry vision, yes. Or you only are able to talk about technology?

You complain. Very well, I also complain on lack of business knowledge from a few of you. Go to school. That's what I did. Why to spread misinformation on topics we have no even clue they exist?

Who are you after all?

Sorry pal, but I am starting to see you as a shill over us. I read recent Andrew's thread on topic. And that's what comes to my mind after your new post. You look like a child to whom we can't address a compliment or the kid starts to misbehave. Fully stupid this attitude. You come here to insult (y)our webmaster... In the same page. C'mon, give yourself a better shot.

16 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Policies and lack of vision? Are you for real!? 

Andrew is upset because he didn't get an invite to an event. That is the only reason. Before that, he was looking forward to the camera despite knowing that there was no IBIS, No flappy screen and no usable AF. We all knew it! 

And which market are you pigeon hole-ing the Pocket4K into? It was never meant to compete with Hybrid or mirrorless cameras for travelling. Blackmagic have always been about Image quality and affordability and are the leaders of the market at this price point and even way above. I know this makes me sound like a BMD rep but It's just getting tiring here on the Pocket4K constantly hearing people complain about things that we have known all along. 

@Andrew Reid I started a thread where people could complain all they like about how the Pocket4K isn't a mirrorless hybrid. It would have been nice to have all this complaint somewhere and kept this thread for useful information. Why did you close that thread? The conversation had already started on it. Now, for useful information here, people have to trawl through pages and pages of useless argument. Really disappointed in your 'my way or the highway' dictator-like attitude Andrew. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Why so harsh man? Is that really needed? What do you know about my experience with this company?

For your information, I've dealt 28 camera units with Blackmagic now. These days... Never saw so improper attitude coming from a similar industry player in my 25 years of business. Real world. Period.

Who are you after all?

Sorry pal, but I am starting to see you as a shill over us. I read recent Andrew's thread on topic. And that's what comes to my mind after your new post. You look like a child to whom we can't address a compliment or the kid starts to misbehave. Fully stupid this attitude. You come here to insult your webmaster... C'mon, give yourself a better shot.

Emanuel, I didn't insult Andrew in my post, I stated a fact and expressed my disappointment in his actions. I stand by the motto, lead by example and Andrew (as our leader!) has used expletives against me a few times while I never have towards him. A forum is about all of us, not just his agenda. Yep, if I don't like it, I can leave but I am also free to express myself as I think it's s shame for me and possibly some here if we all left. 

If I sounded abrupt, it's purely because all this arguing over unrealistic expectations is getting boring and overtaking the thread. 

 

15 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Business policies and lack of industry vision, yes. Or you only are able to talk about technology?

I don't need to justify myself to you, but Ive done Business management, I understand it perfectly fine thanks.

 

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58 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Emanuel, I didn't insult Andrew in my post, I stated a fact and expressed my disappointment in his actions. I stand by the motto, lead by example and Andrew (as our elder!) has used expletives against me a few times while I never have towards him. A forum is about all of us, not just his agenda. Yep, if I don't like it, I can leave but I am also free to express myself as I think it's s shame for me and possibly some here if we all left. 

If I sounded abrupt, it's purely because all this arguing over unrealistic expectations is getting boring and overtaking the thread. 

 

You've sounded, yes. To infer someone is dictator is not the use of a friendly approach. At least to me. I hate to have to read ad hominem attacks on here or anywhere else. First off, we can discuss a point. We just can address some personal point directly to the person we want to reach. There are places for.

I wouldn't call autofocus tracking unrealistic. IBIS, as well. BMD has even introduced tap-to-focus on their lineup now. When some other contenders give that to the customer. It is pointless my personal use. That's what I'm trying to express myself before.

On the other hand, this manufacturer is self-centered on the broadcast segment. But, they deliver cinema cameras exclusively (trust me) from that angle. Offering that like a hybrid tool. This makes little sense to my perspective.

My disappointment is not towards this camera, as said, but their standpoint.

Andrew's report on his Manchester event experience only raised up a red alert I could unfortunately confirm. Sad find by the way. Nothing about that case now. That's the way they see the market from their broadcast market target. And you come here to tell us they're focused to produce cinema cameras? They don't even care to understand what a hybrid tool means. Impression got from real contact in the real world, not fanboyism delirium... Is this good? Not to my book, I'm sorry.

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13 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I wouldn't call tracking AF unrealistic. IBIS, as well. When some other contenders give that to the customer. It is pointless my personal use. That's what I'm trying to express myself before.

So should the Panasonic Varicam, Red Helium, Arri Alexa, Sony F5, Kinefinity Mavo etc all offer IBIS and Tracking AF considering that they cost many thousands more? Surely they should be able to include  AF in their high priced cameras considering my phone has it right? For the price of an Alexa, you'd also think they could include a front facing camera for taking selfies!

Interestingly, did you know that the Sony A7III face tracking AF apparently doesn't work when using an external monitor or recorder? Now theres something not many people would have known when they bought the camera!

And BMD are giving you other things that no other manufacturer are. Go and complain that Panasonic are not giving you a free, top of the line edit suite when you buy a GH camera. Go and complain that Sony are not giving you internal TC, Phantom power, XLR inputs, a 5" 1080p screen, RAW, internal 10 bit etc. 

Its all about priorities. If your priorities are more in line with what Panasonic are doing, buy a Panasonic. 

 

13 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

On the other hand, this manufacturer is self-centered on the broadcast segment. But, they deliver cinema cameras from that angle. Offering that as like a hybrid tool. This makes little sense to my book.

Self centred? Blackmagic are more open than any other camera manufacturer I know.

Look, I like a conversation , that's why I'm here so if you want to continue, feel free to PM me but I'm not sure this is the right place to talk about a companies business models. 

 

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14 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

So should the Panasonic Varicam, Red Helium, Arri Alexa, Sony F5, Kinefinity Mavo etc all offer IBIS and Tracking AF considering that they cost many thousands more? Sureley they should be able to include  AF in their high priced cameras considering my phone has it right?

Interestingly, did you know that the Sony A7III face tracking AF apparently doesn't work when using an external monitor or recorder. Now theres something not many people would have known when they bought the camera!

Self centred? Blackmagic are more open than any other camera manufacturer I know.

Look, I like a conversation , that's why I'm here so if you want to continue, feel free to PM me but I'm not sure this is the right place to talk about a companies business models. 

 

It seems it is you who has something to address me where publicly doesn't fit ; )

What should it be said in public?

Pity, that 'shill argument' feeling didn't abandon me yet...

 

This brand is not the one some of us would expect but a few supporters sell like they are the last cookie of the pack? And then someone comes to invoke the real world...? What real world?! There's real world beyond our own perspective and experience whichever it is.

Your excuse is pointless when we're not discussing cinema cameras, only the $1-1.5K price range, exactly the hybrid segment, have you forgotten? ; -)

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Your excuse is pointless when we're not discussing cinema cameras, only the $1-1.5 grand price range, exactly the hybrid segment, have you forgotten? ; -)

I mean, the thread title has Cinema Camera in it. It doesn’t say the price range or hybrid segment. 

Personally I’m not here to compare this to any other camera, just to evaluate how well it does this things it promises to do. It doesn’t promise to have ibis, af or take high quality stills so there’s little point in comparing those elements to cameras that do, of course they’ll win.

Comparing it’s low light, clipping, audio etc is much more important. 

Rambling on about lack of features it never even hinted at having is almost as pointless and insightful as repeating the fact that it doesn’t fit in your pocket. 

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9 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I mean, the thread title has Cinema Camera in it. It doesn’t say the price range or hybrid segment. 

Personally I’m not here to compare this to any other camera, just to evaluate how well it does this things it promises to do. It doesn’t promise to have ibis, af or take high quality stills so there’s little point in comparing those elements to cameras that do, of course they’ll win.

Comparing it’s low light, clipping, audio etc is much more important. 

Rambling on about lack of features it never even hinted at having is almost as bad as repeating the fact that it doesn’t fit in your pocket. 

LOL Right. That title. The marketing...

It is not only on lack of features. But attitude. I think this brand is overestimated. Fanboys see it like the last return of the Savior. That's not what my experience tells me. Let alone the business perspective someone might expect from a company too centered on the broadcast segment when the media convergence is changing this industry. It is only a distinct viewpoint. But people seem to rather listen or see flowers about...

 

9 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

You don't categorise a camera based on it's price. 

Who? You. You are not everyone, man. Not at all. Come here to call dictator to someone else... LOL

I do it, as for instance. Not idea in your background, but I categorize a camera under different perspectives, being price range one of them. Speaks two decades and a half on this industry ; -)

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59 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Who? You. You are not everyone, man. Not at all. Come here to call dictator to someone else... LOL

I do it, as for instance. Not idea in your background, but I categorize a camera under different perspectives, being price range one of them. Speaks two decades and a half on this industry ; -)

So by your theory, BMD should have taken away 10bit, RAW, XLR, etc from the Pocket4K because it is in a similar price bracket to cameras that don't have those features and to compete, it needs to copy the specs of the other cameras that are the same price. Do you really know anything about business? 

It's like comparing a $40,000 four wheel drive to a $40,000 sports car and complaining that the sports car got stuck on the steep, loose off road section and should have come with a four wheel drive mode because it was the same price as the 4x4. Utterly ridiculous! Two cars, same price, completely different categories.

Generally, people don't categorise something just because it's the same price. If you do, then good luck to you. Many here would't compare the Pocket4K with a smartphone as while they might share a similar price, they were designed to do different things. Two decades in the industry should have taught you that. I know it has for me!

All the best Emanuel.

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16 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Generally, people don't categorise something just because it's the same price. If you do, then good luck to you. Many here would't compare the Pocket4K with a smartphone as while they might share a similar price, they were designed to do different things. Two decades in the industry should have taught you that. I know it has for me!

All the best Emanuel.

I don't see a product exclusively for my use. Personal use or work. I see it not only from my background or experience. I also help others to make their own choices. Yes, I see it not only from my own knowledge, from a scientific perspective because tech is science, but science is not only tech ; )

There are several equations these boards tend to neglect, being Economics only one of them. This makes any industry though. Such standpoint childishly ignores know-how, that's all. Market, in a word. All of us should have that variable to comprehend any tech talk. Unfortunately, if someone comes here to mention it, the reading over here is taken by 'features whining' instead. Or exclusively under a certain personal perspective or experience. We are here to trade different angles and POVs, I guess. BTW, I'd like to address you by your name too but I am unable to have that real information from you (E : -)

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1 hour ago, A_Urquhart said:

So by your theory, BMD should have taken away 10bit, RAW, XLR, etc from the Pocket4K because it is in a similar price bracket to cameras that don't have those features and to compete, it needs to copy the specs of the other cameras that are the same price. Do you really know anything about business?

Once you are editing your own post and introducing another paragraph (now as prologue LOL) here I am again to address you that question in disguise of another personal attack.

Still without clue who you are. You instead have that link in my signature which can give you full disclosure who I am, from where I am coming. Real world, fellow ; ) I never said what you're inferring from my posting. Please don't put words in my keyboard I didn't write. I only said attitude this company has.

You know or should know if you are in this industry as real customer, to have a product out there means much more than a sale. It means to offer reliability, support, good communication, only to mention a few.

I referred myself to business policies and lack of view on the segment they've introduced this offer. US $1-1.5K segment where hybrids have arrived and changing this industry. Take a look on the success of this website where we are and do a fair comparison with the remaining out there only to have a better glance on topic ; -)

I'm sorry but I will not repeat myself. You have the chance to read my posts following my profile. Good luck!

 

PS: Now a second paragraph you've added... When will you stop to protect your argument, dude? I won't bother to answer anymore. My time is paid by myself, pal ; ) Nuff said. The most funny is to have now Captain Hook to downvote some of my criticism. C'mon guys... I had inside information Grant Petty could be monitoring these lines, so be careful with your free speech... LOL ; ) Good chance to address some of our concerns, isn't it? ; -)

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4 minutes ago, shooter said:

Yes, this can be a good camera but... I have heard there are hardware limitations with the free version of Resolve. Why?

The camera comes with the full version of Resolve Studio which would normally cost USD$299. No limitations like the free version of resolve.

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Just now, A_Urquhart said:

The camera comes with the full version of Resolve Studio which would normally cost USD$299. No limitations like the free version of resolve.

That's not what I have heard. You would need more powerful hardware with the free version of Resolve.

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