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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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20 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

No, I have the camera sitting right in front of me right now. Let me just show you how to grade it. In fact I'll have a book on it ready by 9am tomorrow!

I look forward to it. The problem for me though is, since 'Manchestergate', with all the negativity you have pent up toward the pocket4k, can you still be objective about it?

And I'm being serious, while I have the camera and am loving the images from it, it's a shame that many of your forum users who don't have it or are relying on good thorough reviews on it before they buy it won't get an objective view from someone they look up to in the technical regard.

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2 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yes. I have a professional obligation to my readers.

It's a shame you don't show any professional duty to the person hosting your comments, by the way.

Sorry, did you take offence to one of my comments? I'm not sure where I was being unprofessional toward you. 

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How hard can it be to at least make a small effort to try to match the shots from the two cameras? The one on the bottom is from the video, the one on the top a two-second color correction. In the video, I'd almost say they tried their hardest to make the GH5 look ghastly. No wonder what they saw were thin skin tones with little to no gradation. Even checking the vector scope, it's plain to see that their grade is far too magenta.

Screen Shot 2018-10-12 at 4.17.52 AM.png

Screen Shot 2018-10-12 at 4.18.05 AM.png

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"How hard can it be to at least make a small effort to try to match the shots from the two cameras. The one on the bottom is from the video, the one on the top a two-second color correction."

For me this comparison felt like they wanted to make BM look better in most ways. Skintones: bad grade for GH5, Stabilization: "Dont worry, we put it on a gimbal. I mean the BM only," Dynamic range: let's shoot in natural PP with the GH5, and shoot in RAW with BM. 

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1 minute ago, Deadcode said:

"How hard can it be to at least make a small effort to try to match the shots from the two cameras. The one on the bottom is from the video, the one on the top a two-second color correction."

For me this comparison felt like they want to make BM look better in most ways. Skintones: bad grade for GH5, Stabilization: "Dont worry, we put it on a gimbal. I mean the BM only," Dynamic range: let's shoot in natural PP with the GH5, and shoot in RAW with BM. 

And to top it all off, I think most forum members already know how much I struggle with color correction. What they did was a total hack job.

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53 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

The same person would have graded the shots in that video. If they are amateurs , this shows that the Pocket 4K was easier to grade for an amateur. Not a bad thing?

It may not be a bad thing -- if in fact the BMPCC 4K can survive incompetent grading -- but based on their only comment on the matter, it sounds as if they "normalized" the log footage by looking at the vectorscope and making adjustments -- not a promising or reliable workflow, for normalizing log footage.  And that was apparently the extent of the grading they did on both shots.

Without more information, it's impossible to say the poor GH5 results aren't the result of incorrect handling. 

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@helium Actually it is possible to say the poor GH5 results are due to incompetence, because the skin tones don't even fall on the vectorscope skin tone line - they're far too magenta, and far too washed out.

11 minutes ago, helium said:

It may not be a bad thing -- if in fact the BMPCC 4K can survive incompetent grading -- but based on their only comment on the matter, it sounds as if they "normalized" the log footage by looking at the vectorscope and making adjustments -- not a promising or reliable workflow, for normalizing log footage.  And that was apparently the extent of the grading they did on both shots.

Without more information, it's impossible to say the poor GH5 results aren't the result of incorrect handling. 

 

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41 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@helium Actually it is possible to say the poor GH5 results are due to incompetence, because the skin tones don't even fall on the vectorscope skin tone line - they're far too magenta, and far too washed out.

 

Putting skin tones on the line would be a grading choice.  Normalization is a different process -- it takes all the log values and converts them to rec. 709.  If this process wasn't done correctly, skin tones would be off, as would everything else.   But the fact that skin tones aren't on the line doesn't in itself prove that the normalization is off.  The trouble here is that there's no way to evaluate the comparison.  Skin tones may be that bad, pre-grade.  Or they may not.  GH5 skin tones usually incline to green.

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yes. I have a professional obligation to my readers.

It's a shame you don't show any professional duty to the person hosting your comments, by the way.

One day you might realise that a forum is only as good as it's members. It's a two way street.

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

I haven't got a fucking camera, genius boy!

Can't see where I shouted expletives at YOU.

You have no respect for anyone here Andrew.

Goodbye all, it was fun while it lasted

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14 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

 

One day you might realise that a forum is only as good as it's members. It's a two way street.

 

Can't see where I shouted expletives at YOU.

You have no respect for anyone here Andrew.

Goodbye all, it was fun while it lasted

And another one bit the dust.  

Where will it all end?

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9 hours ago, austinchimp said:

Perhaps it's because when the original Pocket came out the look and feel was so far away from any other small camera, while now it seems to be more of a level playing field.

This. 

Humans struggle to judge things objectively, instead viewing it as relative to its nearest comparisons. 

For instance a similar problem you get it is people get upset and grumpy about how "awful modern day life is", yet from the big picture view, we've never had it better! Even the 90th percentile of us in a 1st World Country are living better off than the Kings of France would in the 1500's


I'll admit though, it is a battle to be happy and content with what you have now instead of lusting after the latest shiny toy. I own the original BMPCC after all, but the more I read this thread the more I want the BMPCC4K.....    *if* I do give into tempting to buy another camera, I'll try to get either the Panasonic G85 which is much cheaper and would actually be more useful for my YouTube vlogging, or a 2nd Sony PMW-F3 which I'm often finding useful as a second matching angle to my current F3.  

 

8 hours ago, mercer said:

Half the people buying the P4K, doesn’t need one and will be disappointed and I’ll happily buy it from them sometime next year... haha.

Half the people...  that includes you and I, right? 😉

But yeah, kinda tempted to follow that plan too and buy one next year secondhand. 
However a flaw in that plan is what if they're still only fulfilling pre-order even into early next year....  ha!!
But whatever excuse I need to tell myself to avoid buying one this year!

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10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

My guesstimate based off the BM spec sheet is that to maintain the 85mm rail centre point if the rails went through at its halfway point, then the battery pack/base unit would be 75mm high.

Thats actually plenty of room to accommodate a very decent capacity power bank, the additional XLR and some interesting other additions....

What about a 15mm rod/rail that literally is a battery? So like, you have a cage with a handle and rod that a couple accessories attach to. But the rod itself is a battery. Maybe the handle too.

Maybe this is a dumb idea that's already been mentioned. But it just came to me.

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Well guys, as someone who has it, (and works professionally with cameras) I can tell you I love it! That’s it, it’s a beautiful piece of technology and even though I haven’t had time to shoot something bigger than a few ProRes clips in the evenings before bed I totally adore the images it produce. I’m very excited for my 8sinn cage and T5 holder to arrive next week as I have 2 days off to really get to know the camera! 

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