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Andrew Reid

4K shooting Super 16mm compact from Canon?

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Haha, yeah, that looks like one of these artist renders. But I do find it an interesting concept.

Makes me think that if Canon would've outsourced the camera development to YI (Young Innovators, by China giant Xiaomi) who are of course responsible for the minimalistic YI M1, that is very Leica like in terms of simplicity and perhaps even design. As well as made touch interface friendly for taking intuitive control of your settings. YI is also known for their GoPro rivalling budget actioncams capable of 4K60p. So you know, 1+1=2. If they were to design a premium compact camera for Canon, you betcha it would be something like that.

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The premise is interesting. Especially since it said 4K50, USB-C, HDMI & MIC. Things we know Canon wouldn't do. Just look at their premium compact flagship G1X Mark III... Now, at the same time the G7X and its Mark II have been really popular amongst the YouTube crowd. So they could really appeal and bring in even more people, myself included.

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The specs are very plausible (DPAF even) because Canon already sells these specs in Canon VIXIA GX10 (which looks like no fanboy on any forum knows about?). The big question is the price.

If this materializes, then Sony RX line is in serious trouble.

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I felt like there was an outside chance this was legitimate until "mic jack".

I would love to be wrong though. If it's real, then maybe Canon has identified vlogging as a growing market with big potential. Because this camera would be perfect for that.

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2 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

The specs are very plausible (DPAF even) because Canon already sells these specs in Canon VIXIA GX10 (which looks like no fanboy on any forum knows about?). The big question is the price.

Well actually...

Quote

If this materializes, then Sony RX line is in serious trouble.

Depends which market. Canon's still not very exciting, especially or stills. But they do the basics right in these compact cameras: easy (incl. not opening up 4K for the masses for easy to handle footage to edit and upload), dope colors out of the box no tweaking, C-AF (sorta, even with Canon far from perfect), stabilization... sorta acceptable built-in mic quality (everybody just adds a furry adhesive windscreen, rather than some ext. audio solution?). Which of course makes a huge difference for casual video. Bit like the Cisco Flip camcorders back in the day... just hit to record. What I am wondering about with that render... it seems the display can only tilt... but the way it does seems a little odd, I have the impression it can not do a 180 rotation? Also don't like flip up or down screens (although it keeps the subject's eyes pointed in the direction of the lens, rather than off-camera (this is why Casey wears sunglasses)). Obviously down prevents you from mounting it on a tripod, or atleast you wouldn't be able to see much. Flip it up and it would be blocked by an ext. mic or accessory you might've been using there. Vari-angle screen to me is still the way to go for these type of cameras. Or perhaps like a couple of Samsung cameras did... a small framing display in front (but then you can't really check focus or anything).

Anyways, speaking of RX and Canon G_X...

 

Sony looks pretty horrible for this application (Cloverfield comes to mind). G1X Mk II is saved by stabilization, but actually isn't all that great otherwise. If one would've mentioned it was shot on a Panasonic, people would be nitpicking it sucks in certain areas... yet Canons always seem to be hailed as a flawless king.

What I'm hoping for... LX100 successor with e.g. mic-in, better stabilization, better C-AF and vari-angle touchscreen.

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4 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

If this materializes, then Sony RX line is in serious trouble.

Not really. It just finally gets a SINGLE competitor.

And I doubt the Fake Canon will get a stacked CMOS with 240fps 1080p in LOG.

2 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Anyways, speaking of RX and Canon G_X...

What I'm hoping for... LX100 successor with e.g. mic-in, better stabilization, better C-AF and vari-angle touchscreen.

RX100 V just needs EOSHD Pro Color for skin tones, or it needs someone who knows what he's doing when it comes to video, or both... Or failing that, S-LOG so you don't blow your face out.

LX100 is a very underrated camera, it almost seems to be forgotten. Should have had an update after 1-2 years. Panasonic's big mistake was to not develop that concept further and instead bring out an LX15... meh. May as well buy an RX100 III on eBay for that spec. Or even better a IV.

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2 hours ago, Cinegain said:

But they do the basics right in these compact cameras: easy (incl. not opening up 4K for the masses for easy to handle footage to edit and upload)

That's pretty elitist of you.. And anyway, 4k has been widespread on smartphones for a couple years now.

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@Andrew Reid "Also to do 4K 60p in such a compact body is very hard". 

Nope, DJI Phantom 4 Pro has a 1" sensor in a super tiny body (smaller than this) and does 4K60P log. 

Sometimes we try to technically excuse manufacturers a lot when it is just marketing decisions. 4K60P is easy with today's tech. Wether it is FF or 1". 
If you do not see it in a 2018 camera, it is because the manufacturer decided not to put it. Most likely because they have a 12000$ camera for that they would like you to buy instead.

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29 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

That's pretty elitist of you.. And anyway, 4k has been widespread on smartphones for a couple years now.

No honey, no. :( Not that 'argument' again. C'mon son.

Besides, it's not actually as if I applaud that, heck, I'd love 4K. It's just acknowledging the steps Canon's taking to provide the least hassle (and backlash) as possible for people who'd pick one up. You know, people's computers not being up to snuff and crashing editors, perhaps needing to work with proxies, but having no clue how that would be done, complains that it their turnarounds are too long and the render and upload takes forever, data management problems... or even 4K being restricted to a few minutes et cetera. You can't deny these aren't meant for pros, these are cameras that people buy as a point-and-shoot. They don't care about camera settings or anything, heck, even the more pro YouTubers with one constantly have flickering issues because the exposure is completely automated or in aperture priority. That's why they rely on C-AF. That's why they don't bother with ext. audio. Etc. It just has to be easy to shoot and share your content to the web. And it's tough to argue that what they do doesn't insure that. That said... you can't stay behind the curve forever. And I think that any camera over a 1000 bucks at least, isn't your typical consumer point'n'shoot anymore, so, that they're leaving 4K out of the prosumer DSLR and mirrorless market... is questionable. Because these are the people that do like the options and playing around with the settings and post development.

5 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

@Andrew Reid "Also to do 4K 60p in such a compact body is very hard". 

Nope, DJI Phantom 4 Pro has a 1" sensor in a super tiny body (smaller than this) and does 4K60P log.

The Phantom 4 Pro has 4 cooler fans. :grimace:

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The RX line already had competition with the mark ii and LX15. And in some respects the lx100.

I recommend at least five people to consider the canon mkii over the rx100xx. All of them choose the Canon after trying both. Imo that says something about appealing to regular people.

Personally Ive bought the rx100, ii and the iv no less than 4 times and been disappointed. So if Canon makes this it will be on my radar.

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Personally, I'm not into compacts. But this looks like it could be an amazing camera that I would recommend to friends. A lot of casual users just want an easy-to-use all-in-one package.

A few questions since I don't follow compacts:

Do compacts have the same variation as ILCs across manufacturers in their color science? Do Canon compacts have better color than Sony/Panasonic's?

What about auto focus? Does dual pixel whatever show up in compacts?

 

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21 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Sounds and looks remarkably unlike Canon. Still DJI has 4k/50p on a 1 inch sensor on the Phantom 4 Pro's smaller camera and that drone has been out for a year.

Completely different architecture. Half of the electronic is actually separated from the sensor and lens unit so they are not crammed together under in the same body like a normal camera. It helps for heat dissipation (much more surface for thermal exchange). On top of that, the electronic has plenty of air circulation due to the drone motion and/or propellers airflow.

Plus, above 4k30 on the Phantom 4 Pro you get a significant and negative impact on the image quality. No sure why  (limit of the 100mbps codec? Line skipping?) but I never use this mode.

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16 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

The specs are very plausible (DPAF even) because Canon already sells these specs in Canon VIXIA GX10 (which looks like no fanboy on any forum knows about?). The big question is the price.

If this materializes, then Sony RX line is in serious trouble.

So far the reviews on Amazon for the new Canon VIXIA G10 look rather dissappointing

"Image quality is just not there. As another reviewer pointed out, it is very soft and lacks the sharpness of other 4K cameras. Compared footage from my Sony AX100 which I owned for 3 years, the difference is night and day. Sony is sharp as a tack. The low light performance is terrible. Image is fuzzy and grainy."

 

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