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Western governments are criminally negligent over Coronavirus


Andrew Reid
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34 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

No need to be insulting or personal. I am not a government. I don't need to have pandemic readiness!

My government does, however.

I got out of Barcelona last Thursday. Back in the UK now. There were no rescue flights for those still there, to repatriate people. Most airlines gave up and grounded their fleets, while governments sat on their hands over that too.

It was not intended to be insulting, but tongue in cheek. I just found it a little amusing that you posted an article about being stuck in Barcelona when flights were cancelled unexpectedly, and then a few days later (with hindsight) claimed that any person with eyes could have predicted it ahead of time.

The problem is people are happy to blame their governments for inaction, but they also either a) ignore "advice" unless it is legally enforced, or b) complain about overly strict containment measures which inconvenience them personally. By the time they realise the seriousness of the situation (and after having ignored the "advice" the whole time), they're unwilling to accept any personal responsibility and would prefer instead to blame someone else. Case in point, Bondi Beach, where tourists, as well as affluent locals with an exaggeratted sense of self importance, ignored all warnings. Now there's a number of cases currently emerging in the area following a night of "business as usual" clubbing there.

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3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The USA is now seeing a 13,000 leap in coronavirus cases, in one day.

But is that a true increase in cases, or is it just because they're finally testing for them now?

 

2 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

No preparedness, that's obviously true. But, this is very hard at this point to find gel, mask and ventilators because the demand from government and individual has been soaring and this is becoming a production and logistic nightmare: how do we produce100 or 1000x fold more masks and gel with crippled production capacity in China and a nearly paralyzed logistic chain? Every government right now is working like crazy to solve this question (ok, BoJo might not be :) ). In France, the perfume and cosmetic industry has been mobilized to manufacture gel. As for the mask, there is a need for special fiber to manufacture them which is not easy.

The government needs to not interfere with price signals, so that prices are free to float for supply to match demand. 

Higher prices can lead to great supply coming online, for instance, vodka distilleries making hand sanitisers:
https://thespinoff.co.nz/food/22-03-2020/from-vodka-to-hand-sanitiser-boutique-distilleries-switch-up-to-tackle-covid-19/

 

47 minutes ago, User said:

In a perfect world, I largely agree. However, it could be reasoned that the uncomfortable side of such thinking is that if vast number of people leave it to government to look vital needs, they may become less resilient in times of crisis. On the same token, if lazy incompetent people - who would normally perish through shortsighted thinking and practice, regardless of pandemics like this - are kept alive and allowed to procreate, they perpetuate the cycle... giving rise to a exploitable vote bank that will be lulled into thinking they will be looked after. Unfortunately - though not always - the people get the government they deserve.

 

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2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

No need to be insulting or personal. I am not a government. I don't need to have pandemic readiness!

My government does, however.

I got out of Barcelona last Thursday. Back in the UK now. There were no rescue flights for those still there, to repatriate people. Most airlines gave up and grounded their fleets, while governments sat on their hands over that too.

its silly to say its the governments fault,  to hold them accountable for every little thing. People have brains, its up to people to exercise them and not require the government to do all the thinking for them. Regardless of which party is in power and where, none have been preparing for a pandemic. We have had sars, mers, bird flu, swine influenza, ebola outbreaks, half a dozen movies on various contagions, and the zombie apocalypse (er..... another movie reference ) yet no one has prepared. Most likely because  there's like a 1% chance of an outbreak considering everything else thats been going on in the world.  Yet it looks like  someone just rolled a 1. As i see it, if your not a Christian the best anyone can do is ride it out, otherwise start praying if you haven't already. Now i know god isn't a popular topic but i think we should keep all options on the table 😉 feel free to flame away i can handle it.

i do have one other issue and i dont really want to appear as i'm picking on you mr reid, however i'm a bit disappointed that you chose to lock kyes screw buying new cameras thread, rather than shift it to the lenses forum, i feel kye put a fair bit of effort into that thread  not to mention others contributions and its a bit disheartening to see it locked away.

 

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8 minutes ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

Italy had a Hug a chinese day...  

Do you think that was helping to stop the spread of the virus or increasing the spread of the virus?

The only thing that's 'spreading' here is Chinese government feelgood propaganda.

Check the networks.

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8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 

Four days in a row now of zero cases. 

Most Chinese wouldn't trust any number the their government put up, there are reports that some people were denied treatment or testing for coronavirus in order to make new case number 0

 

Anyway NZ is going nation wide lockdown in 2 days, I packed work computer today to start work from home from tomorrow. 

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I just hope here in the UK that an absolute lock down is announced either today or tomorrow - I do understand that laws have to be passed & as usual politics sometimes gets in the way, but it needs to be done now as people can't be trusted. They've asked us nicely (very British), but pictures of packed shopping spaces, parks & tubes/subways just speaks volumes of our modern times!

I'm both lucky & unlucky - I took a part-time job as I decided that the media was becoming a lost cause to me. Unfortunately I'm a key worker & after my 2 weeks annual leave runs out (booked a month ago by some miracle), I will have to go back to work. My fear is that whilst I've been really careful, others have carried on as if its no big deal (quite possibly spreading the virus around like wild fire) & then I have to go back out into the outside world to try to help people! Still no distancing in supermarkets & I keep walking, as pound signs seem to be more important than safety - especially for their workers!

Hopefully a full lock down will take place & it will be safe for me to go to/from work each day, but will it? I will have to use public transport, but have the companies cleaned the buses (probably not) or will there be any buses running (i hope so as I don't fancy the 1hr 30min walk each way)? But the icing on the cake was my workplace - no hand sanitizer made available & a really shocking lack of any plan put into place to help us or keep us safe. If someone in the building, where I work, gets the virus, it will knock us all out (colds spread at work like you wouldn't believe) & we are a vital service!!!

Hindsight is a great thing, but doesn't help anyone or thing right now! What we really need is for sensible people to keep spreading the word to stay in & only go out if you absolutely have to. But most importantly, if you do go out, keep your distance!

Good luck & stay safe everyone

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This has become a political forum, that occasionally talks about cameras.

It is way too early to point fingers. Hindsight is 20/20.

Except in the case of the media. They are the monsters. Either they are causing undo panic here, or their clear history of doing so dilutes a response to a true threat. They have no checks and balances. 

TURN. OFF. THE. NEWS.

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3 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Anyway NZ is going nation wide lockdown in 2 days, I packed work computer today to start work from home from tomorrow. 

So long as I can still exercise outside, I can take my camera and go on nature walks. Will stop me going stir crazy mad, and dying from a vitamin D deficiency 

57 minutes ago, Bioskop.Inc said:

Hopefully a full lock down will take place & it will be safe for me to go to/from work each day, but will it? I will have to use public transport, but have the companies cleaned the buses (probably not) or will there be any buses running (i hope so as I don't fancy the 1hr 30min walk each way)?

Get a bicycle instead? Only a thirty minute ride each way 

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18 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Except in the case of the media. They are the monsters. Either they are causing undo panic here, or their clear history of doing so dilutes a response to a true threat. They have no checks and balances. 

Yup, some people are paralyzed with fear, and stressed to beyond their limits of coping. 

All because of media hyping it up for more eyeballs, and politicians grand standing to get more attention. 

There is a lack of balanced, non-emotional fear based, debate on this. 

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16 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Yup, some people are paralyzed with fear, and stressed to beyond their limits of coping. 

All because of media hyping it up for more eyeballs, and politicians grand standing to get more attention. 

There is a lack of balanced, non-emotional fear based, debate on this. 

Here in Italy the new public enemy number 1 are people jogging outside, even if alone, even if in a mountain path, seen as the new plague spreaders, as if just by the fact of going out of a building you become magically infected by THE sickness: the virus will see you and will instantly put you into an intensive care unit.

The tv media? We have basically no idea of anything but the virus, with an update of the number of infected about every 30 minutes. Any news about any other country is always about the virus, new cases in Spain, new cases in the UK, US, etc. Every talkshow is about the virus and each evening there are at least two of them, Monday to Sunday.

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1 hour ago, Jonesy Jones said:

This has become a political forum, that occasionally talks about cameras.

In the midst of the most impactful global event since WWII, what exactly should anyone here expect to happen?

Our careers are tied up in this mess.  When people in power make things messier, it matters.

Also curious that an argument you're making is essentially telling people that trying to be informed is a big problem.

Ignorance is hardly an effective refuge at this time.  I wish people were more informed, not less informed.  It could have saved us weeks of inaction.

But you did say "turn off the news" which implies television media, and yes, that's pretty much nonsense.  Are you watching FNC much?  They've been on the "gosh, this is serious" side of things for only about a week. Coincidentally, someone named Donald has been as well.  

Coincidentally again, some FNC talking head made the same complaint you made about "the media" last night, criticized Dr. Fauci in the process, and then DT hit caps lock while repeating the same sentiment online.

And here we are mentioning that same sentiment in a camera forum the next day.

Checks and balances indeed.  

 

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Here in Italy the new public enemy number 1 are people jogging outside, even if alone, even if in a mountain path, seen as the new plague spreaders, as if just by the fact of going out of a building you become magically infected by THE sickness: the virus will see you and will instantly put you into an intensive care unit.

This is what concerns me here in France. We are not quite there yet, at least not officially.

Yes, some could argue, "big deal, so you fitness freaks can't do your usual thing, get over it", but actually some restrictions are pretty stoopid.

Solo running in the fresh area with no one around. Yup, that's going to make the situation worse. Not.

Someone living in an apartment with a dog that needs to be walked can't be forced to shit on the kitchen floor? (That's the dog not the owner). They need to get out and providing they do so sensibly and not with other people... common sense needs to be applied.

I'm lucky that my house is in one of the least most densely populated departements in France and our house is on 2.5 acres of land. We are surrounded by vineyards and agricultural land but our mayor just issued a directive that has now banned any/all activity on the green lane, a former railway line over 20 km long. People can go for their walk in the town but no, not on the green lane as unseen, they may gossip in groups and touch and... If people are going to do that, they are going to do that and they are stupid and ignorant, but wholesale smacking down on everyone supposedly for the greater good is too far.

And then some folks are just nuts...

I was walking the dog the other day when a woman drove past me and in usual French style, skimmed me by mere inches (sorry, but they do this, - can't ever cross that white line in the centre of the road unless it's passing every single vehicle in front of them before immediately turning at the next junction. Without indicating.)...wearing a face mask (in her own car, alone!)...with all the windows down!

And that isn't even the most ridiculous part which is she actually leaned away from me in her seat and turned her head away as she passed me at about 50 kph!

Just imagine if I'd coughed in her direction and my cough beat her 50 kph side draft and entered her vehicle through one of her 4 open windows... She'd have been dead within the week, no question so why take the risk. In fact she was very sensible.

Re. the news. I think you can't avoid it. Moderation and not getting obsessed with it is the thing. I think it's important to be aware of any situation so you can either comply with directives (even if it's to keep off the green lane) or simply make your own common sense decisions.

It's all a load of shit though. Weirdly, despite having zero income and fairly confident the industry is pretty fucked for the forseeable future, I am strangely calm about it and have been practising social distancing and self-isolating much of my life out of choice so no big hardship!

 

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8 hours ago, leslie said:

its silly to say its the governments fault,  to hold them accountable for every little thing. People have brains, its up to people to exercise them and not require the government to do all the thinking for them.

A person can't close an airport on their own, you do need the government for that... You do realise this don't you... It is not all about our own little worlds.

A person can't supply an entire city with masks and hand sanitiser, or call off large public gatherings like they did in Japan, saving thousands of lives in the process.

A person doesn't set the national agenda in a war-type situation, or bailout the economy.

Unfortunately a government can massively cock up all of the above, which is what is happening in UK & US.

Quote

Regardless of which party is in power and where, none have been preparing for a pandemic. We have had sars, mers, bird flu, swine influenza, ebola outbreaks, half a dozen movies on various contagions, and the zombie apocalypse (er..... another movie reference ) yet no one has prepared.

Nobody is 100% prepared but some countries dealt with it a lot better than others. It's all there in the data and public hygiene methods.

Quote

Most likely because  there's like a 1% chance of an outbreak considering everything else thats been going on in the world.  Yet it looks like  someone just rolled a 1. As i see it, if your not a Christian the best anyone can do is ride it out, otherwise start praying if you haven't already. Now i know god isn't a popular topic but i think we should keep all options on the table 😉 feel free to flame away i can handle it.

After some pandemics people stopped believing in God and turned to science.

Fingers crossed this time.

Quote

i do have one other issue and i dont really want to appear as i'm picking on you mr reid, however i'm a bit disappointed that you chose to lock kyes screw buying new cameras thread, rather than shift it to the lenses forum, i feel kye put a fair bit of effort into that thread  not to mention others contributions and its a bit disheartening to see it locked away.

Nothing wrong with the thread, it was just a duplicate topic to the popular and long-standing lenses sticky. No point having two.

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2 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

This has become a political forum, that occasionally talks about cameras.

I honestly mean this with the greatest of love and respect mate but surely you can see the irony in that complaint when your avatar is a political statement in itself?

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Yup, some people are paralyzed with fear, and stressed to beyond their limits of coping. 

All because of media hyping it up for more eyeballs, and politicians grand standing to get more attention. 

There is a lack of balanced, non-emotional fear based, debate on this. 

People gonna people, media gonna media and I'm fairly non-plussed by that as its the same basic behaviour scaled up.

However, the concern for me is that one of life's other observable truths throughout my now middle aged life is that Tories gonna Tory has now been utterly blown out of the water.

What the Tory government in the UK are doing is not a scaling up of their usual behaviour but a complete and utter sea change.

They have more or less nationalised the private sector and have today done the same for the railways.

We are talking about them reversing decades and decades of their deeply entrenched ideology in what amounts to an instant.

They are also the party that in the past decade in power have relentlessly pursued austerity policies that have been so harmful with such zeal that a UN report stated that that in the UK “poverty is a political choice”.

It is also a party that has rabidly pursued the biggest self ball kicking and face punching policy we've ever seen whilst openly declaring that any contrary advice was worthless because they've "had enough of experts".

So such a radical change of behaviour is unnerving and its underlying cause should be the discussion point because its certainly not the clickbait, banner headlines and bog roll mania that has caused it.

This is not an anti-Tory stance either as I welcome the measures and I'd be equally unnerved by such a radical change from whichever party was in power.

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2 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

This has become a political forum, that occasionally talks about cameras.

It is way too early to point fingers. Hindsight is 20/20.

Except in the case of the media. They are the monsters. Either they are causing undo panic here, or their clear history of doing so dilutes a response to a true threat. They have no checks and balances. 

TURN. OFF. THE. NEWS.

+1

 

and unfortunately we enabled the media to manipulate us

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