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Andrew Reid

Panasonic S1H review / hands-on - a true 6K full frame cinema camera

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1 hour ago, deezid said:

They did at IBC 2019 before the ghosting fix on the S1 was available. Was talking to some engineers over there, they even knew who I was and knew the samples I sent. 

Sadly nothing really happened.
Did a collab video with Gerald Undone on this issue and did some promotion for my HLG Lut as well, since HLG is the only way to capture the same amount of dynamic range and color volume using the S1H without having an image which breaks apart quite easily but isn't easy to work with on the other hand without a proper Rec709 conversion to begin with.

55M Advanced Lut for S1H

 

oh yeah, I saw your video with Gerald ha ha!  shame they haven’t fixed it.  Ironic that the camera targeted at the most video professionals who would be most sensitive to and affected by this is the last to get fixed.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
1 hour ago, Lux Shots said:

They are probably packing up one hell of an upgrade. Fix all these bugs and add ProRes RAW support I hope.

Hmm Panasonic did claim releasing Raw via Hdmi to S1H at start of the year what happened ?

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9 minutes ago, Vision said:

Hmm Panasonic did claim releasing Raw via Hdmi to S1H at start of the year what happened ?

They later said in Spring. Should be close to release... Next two months if nothing goes wrong. 

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4 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

Did I hear 12-bit LOG encoded RAW?

No, it's linear RAW, just like Nikon Z6. It will be interesting to see how Panasonic handled all processing things. Supposedly it should be a stream without any processing applied, which S1H log internal does quote a lot to give you clean shadows, etc. It is mostly apparent when I compared S1H to Z6 RAW - they both share the same sensor. As Panasonic does full sensor readout, this should be without some artifacts found on Z6 image. Currently I work on Z6 raw differently than suggested by all these tutorials. I open them in Assimilate Scratch, interpret as Rec2020 gamut and assign Arri Log C gamma, then output with additional converting step to Arri wide gamut. The resulting prores log files are very close to Alexa in color, which was very difficult to achieve when working on Nikon log files. It will be interesting to see how S1H raw behaves in this regard.

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@deezid Here is some good news for you here:

 

  • The value of noise reduction in [V-Log] in Photo Style has been expanded to [-1]. It suppresses afterimages previously occurred in some situations.
  • There were cases where color banding appeared in 4:2:0/10-bit video recording in some situations. This bug has been minimized.
  • There were rare cases where the camera froze during [Segmented File Recording] or during recording at 400 Mbps under a particular set of conditions including the type of SD Card used. This phenomenon has been improved.

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I recently started a web series about Quarantine Life and shoot it mostly on the Panasonic S1H (some shot on the EOS R). Thought you'd like to see some real world footage of the S1H and maybe have a laugh as well. Like most of you, I had almost all of my work for 3-months canceled, so this is based on a very true story.

 

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I played with the S1H for a few days and loved it compared to my BlackMagic. That being said, does anyone foresee a price drop in the near future? It is overpriced for what it is, and will only face more competition the next couple months

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16 minutes ago, Mike Mgee said:

I played with the S1H for a few days and loved it compared to my BlackMagic. That being said, does anyone foresee a price drop in the near future? It is overpriced for what it is, and will only face more competition the next couple months

I have a feeling it will get down to $3500 but that will take some time. You can find them for $3500 used easily though, not too bad. The GH5S is still at $1700-$2000 even though in my opinion there are a lot of better choices out there. 

Right now its still a unique camera at its price point. Sure the P6K is 2k but they are very different cameras. Its 6k Full Frame 10 bit with amazing stills capabilities. I guess the Sigma FP competes with it but they are very different cameras. 

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@thebrothersthre3 No doubt. It is an interesting camera at the moment. But what is going to happen when the new Canon R5 comes out and whatever Sony has to offer. For me it's really hard to justify the camera for the price. S1H + Lens Adapter + XLR mount is 5000USD ...Add in a Ninja if you want RAW and you are at $5500USD. You have plenty of options new and used for that amount of money.

If I was serious into film....I would get a proper cinema camera with an XLR mount + Built in ND filters. 

I could even get a used EVA1 + Video Assist w./ BRAW

If I wanted 6k....I could get a P6K + Mirrorless of my choice for cheaper.

I want full frame raw...Sigma FP. 

I guess if I wanted a hybrid......but now we have the R5 coming out? Why would I be investing in the L mount and subpar AF?

It's hard for me to see who this camera is marketed to. For me, it's main selling point is IBIS + the DR / Highlight rolloff. But for that much $$? Nah. 

If they made a S1X that had 4k 60 10bit internal...THAT would be a killer camera. 

 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Mike Mgee said:

I played with the S1H for a few days and loved it compared to my BlackMagic. That being said, does anyone foresee a price drop in the near future? It is overpriced for what it is, and will only face more competition the next couple months

What'd you like about it compared to your BM?

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1 minute ago, MeanRevert said:

What'd you like about it compared to your BM?

IBIS + Highlight Rolloff is better on the S1H.  IBIS allows me to stabilize my Contax Zeiss lenses. Since there is more DR in the S1H the highlight rolloff is smoother. I think the default color is better on the S1H...but that can be matched to the BM cameras with ease. 

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19 minutes ago, Mike Mgee said:

IBIS + Highlight Rolloff is better on the S1H.  IBIS allows me to stabilize my Contax Zeiss lenses. Since there is more DR in the S1H the highlight rolloff is smoother. I think the default color is better on the S1H...but that can be matched to the BM cameras with ease. 

Isn't highlight rolloff more about the curve used. 

The Sigma FP is decent but there is no intermediate codec and the raw files in 4K are absolutely massive as there are no compressed RAW options. Plus the image on the FP doesn't seem as good as the S1H and no 4k 60p. The sigma FP also has those weird flickering issues. 

If full frame isn't needed or wanted I do agree its an overpriced option. But if you need full frame, its kind of the only thing I'd get at the price point. The S1 isn't a bad option over the S1H if you don't mind lower datarates and no 10 bit high speed options in 4k. 

But yeah for a RAW shooting camera I'd probably go with the P6K. I am not in love with full frame though and hate the idea of external recorders. Plus from what I've seen you can recover more highlight information with BRAW than Panasonic's 10 bit. 

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@thebrothersthre3 I don't know much about highlight rolloff nor color grading. I threw every LUT you can imagine at it, that promised "smoother highlight rolloff" but at the end of the day I think it was a dynamic range issue. 

I think RAW shooting is great, but I don't think it is the end all solution that everyone claims it to be. Yes, it is great if you fuck up white balance. And it is much easier to fix exposure, but it is something many of us don't really need. I initially shot with the A7III and Sony's busted 8bit codec. I felt BRAW was the final solution to my woes...and it was! It really solved all the issues I had before. But shooting in VLOG or any other proper codec...and exposing properly...and hitting your WB correctly as you should...eh...I can live without BRAW. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Mike Mgee said:

@thebrothersthre3 I don't know much about highlight rolloff nor color grading. I threw every LUT you can imagine at it, that promised "smoother highlight rolloff" but at the end of the day I think it was a dynamic range issue. 

I think RAW shooting is great, but I don't think it is the end all solution that everyone claims it to be. Yes, it is great if you fuck up white balance. And it is much easier to fix exposure, but it is something many of us don't really need. I initially shot with the A7III and Sony's busted 8bit codec. I felt BRAW was the final solution to my woes...and it was! It really solved all the issues I had before. But shooting in VLOG or any other proper codec...and exposing properly...and hitting your WB correctly as you should...eh...I can live without BRAW. 

 

 

You editing in resolve or premiere? I've found the colorspace transformation tool in resolve is great. Just switch the colorspace to Arri and apply the basic Arri 709 lut in resolve. 

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2 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

You editing in resolve or premiere? I've found the colorspace transformation tool in resolve is great. Just switch the colorspace to Arri and apply the basic Arri 709 lut in resolve. 

Resolve. I will have another crack at it tomorrow. Thank you!

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14 hours ago, Mike Mgee said:

@thebrothersthre3 No doubt. It is an interesting camera at the moment. But what is going to happen when the new Canon R5 comes out and whatever Sony has to offer. For me it's really hard to justify the camera for the price. S1H + Lens Adapter + XLR mount is 5000USD ...Add in a Ninja if you want RAW and you are at $5500USD. You have plenty of options new and used for that amount of money.

If I was serious into film....I would get a proper cinema camera with an XLR mount + Built in ND filters. 

I could even get a used EVA1 + Video Assist w./ BRAW

If I wanted 6k....I could get a P6K + Mirrorless of my choice for cheaper.

I want full frame raw...Sigma FP. 

I guess if I wanted a hybrid......but now we have the R5 coming out? Why would I be investing in the L mount and subpar AF?

It's hard for me to see who this camera is marketed to. For me, it's main selling point is IBIS + the DR / Highlight rolloff. But for that much $$? Nah. 

If they made a S1X that had 4k 60 10bit internal...THAT would be a killer camera. 

 

 

 

The S1H does have 4K 60p 10-bit internal. This feature alone has my Ninja V being used just to nail focus. If your computer has enough balls to process H265, why bother for files 6x the size?

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