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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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Yeah I would also just just go for 1080p but only if it is artifact free. Thats why for me the best feature of the new pocket is that it can downsample the 4K in camera to 1080p. Hopefully the rolling shutter is similar to the original pocket (maybe @John Brawley can verify that?) and that makes it an amazing 1080p camera. 

 

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3 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

Yeah I would also just just go for 1080p but only if it is artifact free. Thats why for me the best feature of the new pocket is that it can downsample the 4K in camera to 1080p. Hopefully the rolling shutter is similar to the original pocket (maybe @John Brawley can verify that?) and that makes it an amazing 1080p camera. 

 

If it's a customized variant of gh5s and terra 4K sensor then rolling shutter should be very fast.  GH5s is around 10.5ms and the Terra 4K is 8ms.  That's a top-of-the-line performance for any camera of that size, and honestly better than most bigger cinema cams too.  Newer RED 8K cams are quite slow sensor readout times and so are the really large Mostro/Vistavision sensors as well.

There's actually very few cameras that match that performance.

4K VFX is actually very slow.  The way our pipline typically works is we ingest reels of shots directly from the show and then generate the plates ourselves from original camera files and edl/xml data.  Shows not shot on Alexa maybe things are different, but this is the general workflow.  4K dpx frames are around 50mb each, so with 20 people all accessing a server requesting these large files, it's noticeably slower.  We have insanely fast workstations, but that doesn't make a difference when you're server can't keep up.

Only 4K shows that I do are netflix/hulu and occasionally there's a lower budget show that shoots on RED and they tend to do 4K post.  But I think they master at 1080.  Everything generally takes about 2x longer with 4K, but I have tricks that I can still work fast.

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1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

If it's a customized variant of gh5s and terra 4K sensor then rolling shutter should be very fast.

Apparently we won't see any rolling shutter - Although I guess if you swing the camera around trying to see it, you will see it.

image.thumb.png.1f3cbc6100ced747f0e08514cebffd44.png

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3 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Apparently we won't see any rolling shutter - Although I guess if you swing the camera around trying to see it, you will see it.

image.thumb.png.1f3cbc6100ced747f0e08514cebffd44.png

Yes.  Latest Blackmagic releases no longer have rolling shutter problems.  Ursa Mini 4.6K/Pro is decently fast.  So is the new micro cinema camera.  When they switched to 4K+ cameras aliasing/moire largely went away too.

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This thread suddenly got very useful!!

7 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Apparently we won't see any rolling shutter - Although I guess if you swing the camera around trying to see it, you will see it.

 

4 hours ago, Savannah Miller said:

Yes.  Latest Blackmagic releases no longer have rolling shutter problems.  Ursa Mini 4.6K/Pro is decently fast.  So is the new micro cinema camera.  When they switched to 4K+ cameras aliasing/moire largely went away too.

and the BMPCC4K seems to just get better and better with more information released...!

 

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AFAIK the only BM cameras that don't have any RS are the BMCC4K & Ursa Mini 4K both of which feature a global shutter sensor. UM4.6K/UMP etc do exhibit RS even if on the moderate side:

splitframefullres.jpg

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nope it got dropped just like on the UM4.6K. here are some numbers i found pulled from bmd forum:

URSA Mini 4.6k:
4.6k – 15.17ms
4k/2160p – 12.64ms
2k/1080p – 6.32ms
Micro Studio: 9.9ms
Micro Cinema: 13.3ms
Pocket: 17.74ms
BMCC: 23.62ms

 

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@mercer yeah kind of an overlooked camera.. the BMPC4K also has that exact same sensor and can be picked up second hand even cheaper like around $1600.. not bad for 4K Super 35mm Sensor with Global Shutter, ProRes/Raw, 12 stops, SSD, 5" touch screen & SDI outs!

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Dynamic range of the 4K model is pretty weak.  If you compare it to they Sony F55 which is also global shutter, the performance is much worse.  So I think the 4K global shutter model was a big step backwards in image quality compared to other Blackmagic cams.  But because it was 4K global shutter, Aliasing/moire/rolling shutter artifacts were mostly gone so at the time it seemed better.  Now looking at Ursa Mini 4.6K images you can see a clear difference in the fairchild sensors vs cmosis.

Ursa mini 4k/BMPC/full size ursa are not relevant anymore with the pocket 4K coming out soon.

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2 hours ago, Django said:

@mercer yeah kind of an overlooked camera.. the BMPC4K also has that exact same sensor and can be picked up second hand even cheaper like around $1600.. not bad for 4K Super 35mm Sensor with Global Shutter, ProRes/Raw, 12 stops, SSD, 5" touch screen & SDI outs!

Actually the difference between the 4k and 4.6k sensor was HUGE. 3 stops (or more) of dynamic range difference. And hence the 2k price difference (maybe more now?). 

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No one is going to argue about DR superiority of the UM4.6K with 15 stops advertised instead of 12 for the 4K. It's also got a wider ISO range.

All i'm saying is if you're allergic to rolling shutter and again want a 4K Super 35mm Sensor with Global Shutter then the UM4K/BMPC4K are a good deal.

The F55 is literally 10 times retail of the UM4K and 20 times a used BMPC4K. Just sayin'

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Again no argument F55 >>> UM4K but it's like saying: Aston Martin DB5 is a really good car. It's worth 10x the price of a Hyundai imo. I find it to be a 10x better vehicule. Maybe it's the user, but just watch "Goldfinger / Casino Royale". Beautiful stuff. ;) 

we're in a BM Pocket thread on a compact hybrid forum. affordability & good value were the points being made.

btw, on a side note i've been catching up on 'The resident' (discovered via this thread) kinda fun trying to guess which shots are Alexa, UMP & BM Micro!

 

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I’m always impressed by those here who can tell the camera from the footage. I admit to struggling to see the difference even when I am  told where to look and what to look for! 

It’s like a game of chess - the colour grader trying to make the footage from the various cameras match and the eagle-eyed EOSHDer trying to spot the difference...

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32 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

I’m always impressed by those here who can tell the camera from the footage. I admit to struggling to see the difference even when I am  told where to look and what to look for! 

It’s like a game of chess - the colour grader trying to make the footage from the various cameras match and the eagle-eyed EOSHDer trying to spot the difference...

Apparently you don't yet mastered mind-usage of two magical words - color science... Applied to footage seen on 8 bit HD or even 4k screen, I finally understand "color science" as such: the more I'm looking  in two comparative footage with identical postgrading result, the more I'm sure that far better "color science" have that one, that origin from today-modern camera I actually have, or I wish to have in my last wish-iteration...

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