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Canon 9th July "Reimagine" event for EOS R5 and R6 unveiling


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Everyone is lining up to buy the camera purely based on specs. There are so many intangibles yet to be learned: Rolling Shutter Dynamic Range Highlight Roll-off Detail in

https://www.eoshd.com/news/canon-officially-schedules-9th-july-live-event-to-reveal-eos-r5-and-eos-r6/ https://www.canon.co.uk/pro/events/reimagine-live-event/ Save the date! Shills wil

I guess that it is impossible to build a camera without one or two flaws (not saying that is the case of the new Canons, they have more than this). And even only with one or two flaws, will be people

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26 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Probably they did.  Thats why they waited this long to release such info.

I think covid had an impact on the timing and delay. 

We still don't have a really good FF hybrid camera.  The S1H is expensive for a camera that has the same image quality as the S1 and Z6 with unusable AF. 

I would say the Nikon Z6S might be the camera to look out for.  If it comes in with 10bit internal and 4K60p and still keeps internal RAW then it checks all the boxes without having to deal with the cripple hammer. 

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52 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Who else feels like your birthday party got cancelled? 

I totally hate all the negative overheating reviews.  It's a PR nightmare that's Canon should have seen coming.

I guess that it is impossible to build a camera without one or two flaws (not saying that is the case of the new Canons, they have more than this). And even only with one or two flaws, will be people calling the camera "completely unusable".

If Panasonic release a GH6 with 4k120 no crop 4:4:4 12 bit ProRes RAW, clean ISO 12800, Ibis with 15 stops, S35 sensor and $2000 price, someone will shout "but it is not full frame, it's crap" or "I need 4k240 ALL-I, it's crap".

Best (at least in my point of view) is to wait for the real world reviews, with real people using it for real jobs, which know what they are doing. Now it is only paper specs talk and sponsored reviews.

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17 hours ago, Vintage Jimothy said:

... the occasional longer interview, but those aren't particularly common for me...Obviously it seems the R5 is a no-go for anyone specializing in wedding videography or documentary filmmakers with workflows that rely on having the camera rolling non-stop... but I don't think the recording limits get in the way much for narrative filmmakers or filmmakers making music videos. Having been making narrative projects for the better part of a decade now, the only time my co-workers or I have ever recorded multiple takes in a single video file are when we spent several minutes shooting B-roll. And typically I don't imagine most indie-level narrative filmmakers shoot a single take that lasts well over five minutes...

Those are good points and helps us documentary/event people see that perspective. OTOH I'm not sure we have complete info on the camera. Is the thermal issue *only* when rolling or partially when it's powered up? Does it never happen when using an external recorder, or just not as quickly? I did a lot of narrative work last year and (like you) never rolled more than about 90 seconds. I see that point. But my old Sony A7R2 would partially heat up just from being powered on, which gave the heat buildup a "head start" when rolling commenced, making a shutdown happen faster. Is the R5 like that?

Also unknown is the cumulative heat buildup based on shooting duty cycle. Even if you never shoot a 30 min. interview, if you do numerous 2-min b-roll shots in hot weather, will the R5 hit the thermal limit?

More than the initial thermal time limit, the cooldown times seem troubling, esp. if hot ambient conditions amplify this.

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5 minutes ago, joema said:

Also unknown is the cumulative heat buildup based on shooting duty cycle. Even if you never shoot a 30 min. interview, if you do numerous 2-min b-roll shots in hot weather, will the R5 hit the thermal limit?

More than the initial thermal time limit, the cooldown times seem troubling, esp. if hot ambient conditions amplify this.

whoever is preordering a R5 also should preorder a vent!!!

most probably we will soon see some dedicated solution cages with coolers added to reach the 30 minutes limit, and maybe two or three more iterations, but probably the best solution will be an external recorded, I hate them anyway, so probably best for me is R6 route.

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I hate this bit. Where the only people who have cameras are the reviewers that play the game with the big companies: who know who will blow smoke up their arse.  

By the time we actually get to see any stills and vid samples the bloody things have been pundited to death, we've all lost days of our lives pointlessly pontificating (hey yeah totally guilty m'lord) and arguing the toss 😆 and we've spent so long doing it that the actual release is a huge anticlimax.  (Or in my case realise that my niche absolutely does not need, and so I cannot possibly justify, dropping $6.5 Aud on the camera anyway).  Yet despite saying this, you can bet I'll read all the articles and watch all the videos 🙄

I wonder about the industry: the cost of these things contines to skyrocket, yet I've not put my prices up for 2 years.  And clients seems increasingly happy to embrace the cheap and shitty.   (I live in rural Australia: your experience may differ😬😁)

 

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On 7/11/2020 at 5:55 AM, gethin said:

I hate this bit. Where the only people who have cameras are the reviewers that play the game with the big companies: who know who will blow smoke up their arse.  

By the time we actually get to see any stills and vid samples the bloody things have been pundited to death, we've all lost days of our lives pointlessly pontificating (hey yeah totally guilty m'lord) and arguing the toss 😆 and we've spent so long doing it that the actual release is a huge anticlimax.  (Or in my case realise that my niche absolutely does not need, and so I cannot possibly justify, dropping $6.5 Aud on the camera anyway).  Yet despite saying this, you can bet I'll read all the articles and watch all the videos 🙄

I wonder about the industry: the cost of these things contines to skyrocket, yet I've not put my prices up for 2 years.  And clients seems increasingly happy to embrace the cheap and shitty.   (I live in rural Australia: your experience may differ😬😁)

 

I would guess Australia is a much better place to be a video maker than most of the world.

The prices are kept very low, even in TV jobs they proposed us a 20% cut, from the already low wages they are offering! I declined some already, but in the end I may have to accept a lesser pay, for more working hours, again.. and I was waiting for this year to rise my salary a bit..

The other markets are race to the bottom with people watching youtube and shot most of their stuff with their mobile phones.

Even some internet campaings we shot recently were not very well payed, to put it mildy, and we had to cut from everything just to justify making them.

Video is everywhere at the moment, so most of the clients except to be very cheap, and it is, because there thousands offering video services for very low money, except they are not profesionals, whatever that means.

Everywhere, the middle class is shrinking I guess, that is true in "middling" jobs too. There are mostly very low paid jobs, and you have to compete with hordes of 20 somethings that just bought a GH5 kit (I have many examples of people getting just an a6300kit and started working!), or try to reach the higher jobs, which are very few already, and in a lot of broken economies are not very well paid either (Balkans, Middle East, Africa, Most of Asia, Central and South America, e.t.c).

Probably everyone will shoot with 360 cameras and 360 microphones, will edit with voice commands, and produce their own videos in 20 years from now!

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On 7/10/2020 at 4:02 PM, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

I guess that it is impossible to build a camera without one or two flaws (not saying that is the case of the new Canons, they have more than this). And even only with one or two flaws, will be people calling the camera "completely unusable".

If Panasonic release a GH6 with 4k120 no crop 4:4:4 12 bit ProRes RAW, clean ISO 12800, Ibis with 15 stops, S35 sensor and $2000 price, someone will shout "but it is not full frame, it's crap" or "I need 4k240 ALL-I, it's crap".

Best (at least in my point of view) is to wait for the real world reviews, with real people using it for real jobs, which know what they are doing. Now it is only paper specs talk and sponsored reviews.

I love the enthusiasm and yes id love the spec but the price point would be more like 4grand or more in this day ,can"t wait for Sony show their secret weapon 4k120raw output via Atomos would be killer combo  

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1 hour ago, MeanRevert said:

At the risk of being savaged, has anyone actually seen a 'filmic' looking video yet?  The videos I've seen have been good, you know 'video', but nothing close to what I've seen come out of the Blackmagics.

I don't think it is going to win any DR contests, if that is what you mean. But if you keep the camera within its limits, it can generate some decent footage with no apparent noise:

326089225_CanonR58KRAW.thumb.png.b581957202cde9ae6b81578133483de3.png

http://vimeo.com/428556668

1260521075_CanonR54K120.thumb.png.4f2f9695b377027ca115577ca55defd7.png

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UskTIP40HTQ

But, yes, overall the footage has been rather disappointing from a "filmic" perspective. Most of what we have seen demonstrates limited DR (around 10-11 stops) and a "thinning" of the color bit depth:

1335383526_Screenshot(26).thumb.png.f0810788dc7e56f5cdafb30969740a50.png

59770464_Screenshot(30).thumb.png.b997d3a6ed4a77204ebb37e80e567d4b.png

287998322_Screenshot(16).thumb.png.36599cdf5c18cec19b3976ed8d7f762c.png

1753299334_Screenshot(12).thumb.png.9dfa38acd633e44f2a00a673399b5720.png

Screenshot (32).png

Some of that poor quality probably has to do with user error or lack of proper grading options. Otherwise, it is Canon's way of telling us to buy the 1DX III for video.

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4 minutes ago, Kino said:

I don't think it is going to win any DR contests, if that is what you mean. But if you keep the camera within its limits, it can generate some decent footage with no apparent noise:

326089225_CanonR58KRAW.thumb.png.b581957202cde9ae6b81578133483de3.png

http://vimeo.com/428556668

1260521075_CanonR54K120.thumb.png.4f2f9695b377027ca115577ca55defd7.png

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UskTIP40HTQ

But, yes, overall the footage has been rather disappointing from a "filmic" perspective. Most of what we have seen demonstrates limited DR (around 10-11 stops?) and a "thinning" of the color bit depth:

1335383526_Screenshot(26).thumb.png.f0810788dc7e56f5cdafb30969740a50.png

59770464_Screenshot(30).thumb.png.b997d3a6ed4a77204ebb37e80e567d4b.png

287998322_Screenshot(16).thumb.png.36599cdf5c18cec19b3976ed8d7f762c.png

1753299334_Screenshot(12).thumb.png.9dfa38acd633e44f2a00a673399b5720.png

Some of that poor quality probably has to do with user error or lack of proper grading options.

Screenshot (32).png

You guys mean the camera that isn’t out yet? Canon has historically had horrible videos promoting their cameras. But if those first two videos Kino linked don’t look “filmic” or at least good to you, I’m not sure what to tell you.
 

Blackmagic is using a Sony sensor and it’s filmic look is color science and being raw, which allows better color grading. Canon has a great color science and can also shoot raw, so once it’s out in the wild I’d expect the same mix of great and shit, same as blackmagic. Don’t forget the first 2 months of pocket 4K footage was horrible. Everyone was complaining it looked like a GH5 and too “video”. Me being one of them. I learned my lesson though and realized very few cameras outside of arri are instant filmic. 
 

Get it in the right hands and it’ll be nice. “Filmic” looks needs proper lenses, filters, lighting, and color grading. I used to hate when people told me that, but once I learned about lighting and color grading - that all changed. Yes it is boosted by a camera with good dynamic range and great colors. To my eyes dynamic range looks good on the R5, especially the footage I played with. I don’t care how many stops it is, the fact that the second link is just a basic handheld slow mo shot at the beach and it looks that good, makes me think once people use it with real lighting like the first link of the guy at gym - it can really shine. But I shoot photos and video, so hence me gushing. For me it’s both of my worlds in one package. 

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20 hours ago, crevice said:

Get it in the right hands and it’ll be nice. “Filmic” looks needs proper lenses, filters, lighting, and color grading. I used to hate when people told me that, but once I learned about lighting and color grading - that all changed.

First video is all about lighting. 90% of that was the lighting with the 10% the grade. You could have graded it in multiple directions, cool, warm, or dark and moody. Last 10% is stylistic in my opinion.

Second video is a better test of dynamic range. It’s just Good. Not great, but not shit either. Considering its coming from DSLR type camera its more than acceptable. Maybe Clog3 will give it a bit more for that extra edge.

For someone that just wants to pick up a camera and shoot with very little fuss in post the R5/6 are great. Best in class even. That’s the appeal.

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Had a play at local camera store where they have R5/R6 to play

The guy said R5 is the final production while their R6 is still pre-production one

My u3 card last 4 seconds on 8kIBP, on 4k50p ibp it is fine , guess u really need UHS-II for All-I or 8K IBP.

Auto focus is really good, can detect person's eye against the light (window) even though the person is really dark on the camera

IBIS on the 85 DS is much more smoother than the A7R4 we had with us. 

I can definitely fake a few gimbal/slider shot with the R5/R6 vs with my R. 

R6 with the 24-105 7.1 focus quite fast inside the shop at 7.1 aperture.

And after playing with 28-70 i m never gonna get this lens at all, it is just too heavy and big. The 70-200 2.8 RF is surprisingly light on the other hand.

20200719_125859.jpg

20200719_125527.jpg

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1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

R6 with the 24-105 7.1 focus quite fast inside the shop at 7.1 aperture.

And after playing with 28-70 i m never gonna get this lens at all, it is just too heavy and big. The 70-200 2.8 RF is surprisingly light on the other hand.

 

 

nice, what about the 24-105 7.1?, is it also too heavy?

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1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

Had a play at local camera store where they have R5/R6 to play

The guy said R5 is the final production while their R6 is still pre-production one

My u3 card last 4 seconds on 8kIBP, on 4k50p ibp it is fine , guess u really need UHS-II for All-I or 8K IBP.

Auto focus is really good, can detect person's eye against the light (window) even though the person is really dark on the camera

IBIS on the 85 DS is much more smoother than the A7R4 we had with us. 

I can definitely fake a few gimbal/slider shot with the R5/R6 vs with my R. 

R6 with the 24-105 7.1 focus quite fast inside the shop at 7.1 aperture.

And after playing with 28-70 i m never gonna get this lens at all, it is just too heavy and big. The 70-200 2.8 RF is surprisingly light on the other hand.

20200719_125859.jpg

20200719_125527.jpg

I’ve been going back and forth on that 28-70. I’m assuming the size and weight isn’t an over exaggeration? Can you compare to another lens? Is it bigger than the 70-200?

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1 hour ago, hijodeibn said:

nice, what about the 24-105 7.1?, is it also too heavy?

24-105 7.1 + r6 is quite light comparatively speaking (other RF lens they provide is quite heavy), around same weight as gh5 + 12-35mm 2.8

 

58 minutes ago, crevice said:

I’ve been going back and forth on that 28-70. I’m assuming the size and weight isn’t an over exaggeration? Can you compare to another lens? Is it bigger than the 70-200?

Much fatter than 70-200mm 2.8, 28-70 weight is 1.43kg while 70-200 is 1.07kg, you can feel the mass of 28-70mm after trying out the 70-200.

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