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Snowbro

1DX Mark III Prototypes - 6K IBIS

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This could be interesting, apparently it has been leaked around and people have got their hands on them. I sold most of my DSLR lenses and don't see myself buying more this late in the game. Anyone else probably pass on this even though it likely will put out an amazing picture? There is about a 2% chance they put CLOG in it haha. 

"It’s likely the Canon EOS-1D X Mark III will shoot 6K video without a crop.

Dual CFExpress cards are in the prototype models and will likely make it to the production version.

There will be a “significant jump in resolution for an EOS-1 series camera”.  The EOS-1D X was 18.1mp and the EOS-1D X Mark II came in at 20.2mp. So I guess anything over a 2mp bump could be considered “significant” to some.

New DIGIC processor. Canon doesn’t usually introduce a new DIGIC processor in the EOS-1D series, but that will apparently change this time.

IBIS is in prototype cameras"

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19 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

It makes me so sad to hear that Canon might give in to the conservatives that demand IBIS instead of innovation. Even though its an old, clunky and obsolete technology. 
 

It’s funny you say that, when I glanced at the patent photos, of their IBIS tech, I thought I was looking at schematics for an old watch.

With that being said, I’d love to have Canon IS level stabilization on all of my lenses. 

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25 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

It makes me so sad to hear that Canon might give in to the conservatives that demand IBIS instead of innovation. Even though its an old, clunky and obsolete technology. 
 

Innovation? Canon? They've heaps of innovation, they have just decided that now's not the time to share it. Wait a few years and you'll see!

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44 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

It makes me so sad to hear that Canon might give in to the conservatives that demand IBIS instead of innovation. Even though its an old, clunky and obsolete technology. 

What do you think makes IBIS obsolete?  Isn't it simply OIS but applied to the sensor?  And please don't say electronic stabilisation has replaced it!!

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Now that Sony has a decent selection of E-mount tele glass, Nikon D6, Canon 1DX mkIII and the soon-to-be-revealed Sony a9 mkII will have to be evaluated as equals (in regards to actually being able to shoot sporting events). Hopefully, Sony realizes that and has really something "revolutionary" up their sleeves (not like their last couple of lukewarm announcements). AF is going to be stellar for sure, but what about everything else.

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2 hours ago, Snowbro said:

"It’s likely the Canon EOS-1D X Mark III will shoot 6K video without a crop.

Dual CFExpress cards are in the prototype models and will likely make it to the production version.

There will be a “significant jump in resolution for an EOS-1 series camera”.  The EOS-1D X was 18.1mp and the EOS-1D X Mark II came in at 20.2mp. So I guess anything over a 2mp bump could be considered “significant” to some.

New DIGIC processor. Canon doesn’t usually introduce a new DIGIC processor in the EOS-1D series, but that will apparently change this time.

IBIS is in prototype cameras"

6K requires at least 6000 pixels across, so in a 4:3 sensor that would equate to ~27MP.  Alexa shoots 3.2K and upscales to 4K, which is a 1.25x upscale, which if Canon used the same logic would require a ~17MP sensor.

If it's true, which sounds feasible, then it will be interesting to see what they do.  There's a famous saying "yesterday is the best predictor of tomorrow" so I wouldn't bet on a surprising move from Canon.

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12 minutes ago, kye said:

What do you think makes IBIS obsolete?  Isn't it simply OIS but applied to the sensor?  And please don't say electronic stabilisation has replaced it!!

Being a software guy and seeing what Google has done over the years with pixel. I guarantee you in the somewhat near future, you will see many top cameras only use digital stabilization. It will rock when you have low rolling shutter and use a 6k sensor and output a final image at 4k, or 8k/6k etc. 

The cameras could get even smaller & lighter with less power consumption. 

That being said, I dont think canons current digital IS on anything I have seen from them could replace a gimbal. Maybe in 10 years; I would put my money on Panasonic or Fuji.

Forgot to mention: ibis/lens stabilization always has an odd floaty type feel or unnatural jerky motion to it. I havent seen that oddness when I have just shot handheld on a low rolling shutter camera and stabilized it in post, or just good implementation of digital IS. Low light seems to be the last thing they are figuring out for it, but I would bet that will be resolved quickly. 

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1 hour ago, mercer said:

With that being said, I’d love to have Canon IS level stabilization on all of my lenses. 

That's why I like the IBIS in the GH5 - it stabilises my fully-manual vintage lenses.  Fast, cheap, great MF, great ergonomics and stabilised is a combo that only IBIS provides.

34 minutes ago, Snowbro said:

Being a software guy and seeing what Google has done over the years with pixel. I guarantee you in the somewhat near future, you will see many top cameras only use digital stabilization. It will rock when you have low rolling shutter and use a 6k sensor and output a final image at 4k, or 8k/6k etc. 

The cameras could get even smaller & lighter with less power consumption. 

That being said, I dont think canons current digital IS on anything I have seen from them could replace a gimbal. Maybe in 10 years; I would put my money on Panasonic or Fuji.

This is something that I think people don't understand...

OIS and IBIS stabilise DURING the exposure of each frame - Electronic stabilisation stabilises AFTER the exposure of each frame.

1231346246_ScreenShot2019-09-18at6_48_13pm.thumb.png.c5ba87dc3e690ebab5b43e932dc7e3d8.png

If you're shaking the camera at all, the fuzzy light-trails and motion blur in each frame can't be fixed by electronic stabilisation.  Every camera with electronic stabilisation is designed for very short exposures - action cameras.  As soon as you want a 180 shutter or work in low light then electronic stabilisation isn't much use.  It means that you throw away all your ND filters, or always use the camera on a gimbal.

[Edit: this applies to any motion of the camera or any motion in the frame]

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16 minutes ago, kye said:

That's why I like the IBIS in the GH5 - it stabilises my fully-manual vintage lenses.  Fast, cheap, great MF, great ergonomics and stabilised is a combo that only IBIS provides.

This is something that I think people don't understand...

OIS and IBIS stabilise DURING the exposure of each frame - Electronic stabilisation stabilises AFTER the exposure of each frame.

If you're shaking the camera at all, the fuzzy light-trails and motion blur in each frame can't be fixed by electronic stabilisation.  Every camera with electronic stabilisation is designed for very short exposures - action cameras.  As soon as you want a 180 shutter or work in low light then electronic stabilisation isn't much use.  It means that you throw away all your ND filters, or always use the camera on a gimbal.

EIS could in theory solve the problem by shooting with a much higher framerate and combining several short exposures into one longer stabilized exposure. However, given today's tech, I would much rather have IBIS.

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17 minutes ago, Snowbro said:

Forgot to mention: ibis/lens stabilization always has an odd floaty type feel or unnatural jerky motion to it. I havent seen that oddness when I have just shot handheld on a low rolling shutter camera and stabilized it in post, or just good implementation of digital IS. Low light seems to be the last thing they are figuring out for it, but I would bet that will be resolved quickly. 

When they work out how to un-blur images in post IT WILL BE THE BEST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED TO FILM-MAKING.

We can record in 1080 and then un-blur to get 4K, or 8K.  All those police shows will come true where they take a blurry video and just keep saying "enhance..... enhance..... enhance..... enhance....." until you can tell where he ate dinner by looking at the individual molecules in the crumbs on his chin.

In IT, once information is gone, it's gone.

2 minutes ago, UncleBobsPhotography said:

EIS could in theory solve the problem by shooting with a much higher framerate and combining several short exposures into one longer stabilized exposure. However, given today's tech, I would much rather have IBIS.

That requires much better ISO performance than we have currently, plus it would require that the next exposure start immediately after the last exposure stopped, otherwise you'd get gaps in your motion blurs.

I get that with a high enough frame rate and a bit of AI you could close those gaps pretty easily, but I'd prefer IBIS and the fantastic low-light performance.  Also, this high-framerate plus AI processing doesn't seem to give the smaller-camera plus better battery life that @Snowfun was talking about :) 

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I have had the best luck shooting at a higher frame rate, then slowing it down to 24p and stabilizing. No blurring problems then. Usually no low light issues after 60p recording in 4K and export to about 2.5k in a 4k frame upscale to fit. 

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IBIS is gonna be great for all those non IS EF L lenses. especially for static shots where it can substitute a monopod/tripod. and of course stills so you can lower that shutter speed and keep low ISO. 6K FF no crop? now that would be mind-blowing. there has to be some kind of catch though cuz wouldn't that risk cannibalising C500 mk2? surely 8-bit, no c-log & maybe even no DPAF. I'd still be all over it!

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This will probably be the camera to get and at a hefty price tag. I'd be shocked if it didn't have Clog considering the EOS R does. I assume it will be the standard 8 bit 422 codec, which isn't bad at all but definitely separates it from the likes of a C500 or C300. 

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1DX2 never got Clog even though it became a paid option on 5D4 and came standard in EOS R. Same thing on the Sony A9.

It's like Canon/Sony are willing to give you great SOOC IQ on their flagships yet don't wanna risk them cannibalising their Cine lines.

Codec wise I certainly hope they ditch the horribly inefficient MJPEG for h264 and give us at least 4K HDMI out.

It'll be interesting to see what D6 has in store as that will be 1DX3's main competition.

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57 minutes ago, Django said:

1DX2 never got Clog even though it became a paid option on 5D4 and came standard in EOS R. Same thing on the Sony A9.

It's like Canon/Sony are willing to give you great SOOC IQ on their flagships yet don't wanna risk them cannibalising their Cine lines.

Codec wise I certainly hope they ditch the horribly inefficient MJPEG for h264 and give us at least 4K HDMI out.

It'll be interesting to see what D6 has in store as that will be 1DX3's main competition.

Seems like limiting it to 8 bit and having none of the pro outputs/inputs would be enough to not cannibalize their cine line. Who knows with Canon

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7 hours ago, kye said:

That's why I like the IBIS in the GH5 - it stabilises my fully-manual vintage lenses.  Fast, cheap, great MF, great ergonomics and stabilised is a combo that only IBIS provides.

This is something that I think people don't understand...

OIS and IBIS stabilise DURING the exposure of each frame - Electronic stabilisation stabilises AFTER the exposure of each frame.

1231346246_ScreenShot2019-09-18at6_48_13pm.thumb.png.c5ba87dc3e690ebab5b43e932dc7e3d8.png

If you're shaking the camera at all, the fuzzy light-trails and motion blur in each frame can't be fixed by electronic stabilisation.  Every camera with electronic stabilisation is designed for very short exposures - action cameras.  As soon as you want a 180 shutter or work in low light then electronic stabilisation isn't much use.  It means that you throw away all your ND filters, or always use the camera on a gimbal.

[Edit: this applies to any motion of the camera or any motion in the frame]

Agreed. EIS has its limits. I think it’s best used like in the newer Olympus cameras in conjunction with IBIS to mitigate or eliminate that jello effect in the corners using sensor data from the actually IBIS mechanism and not by analyzing the image.

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