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Nikon FF Mirrorless

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I'm just going to chime in from the perspective of someone who uses Nikon pro bodies for work and would be looking to swap out his D810 against the Z7 versus perhaps going for a D850.

Its not going to be some moan about wanting to hammer nails in with it or tow it in the water behind a speedboat or some such but it is about the ergonomic differences between the pro bodies and those that use the PASM locking dial.

This will also hold true for anyone who uses a D850 in anger and was looking to swap over.

I'm not sure why they've gone to a locking PASM dial when the mode selection keys at the top of the dial of the other cameras (like the D850 for example) offers fast access to WB and Meter Modes as well as the PASM selection. Not to mention being able to switch Quality modes without having to go into a menu.

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And it looks confirmed as per the post the other day that they've removed the dedicated lock file button which is absolutely nuts considering how vital it is.

Strange choices to be honest.

Quite surprising as well when you'd have thought that they would want to tap into their existing user base and offer them a seamless transition in to this brave new world of mirrorless.

This is not me just being an old fart and complaining about not wanting anything to be changed by the way but their existing ergonomics weren't broken so I don't get why they've tried to 'fix' them in this way.

The beauty of that top dial in their existing cameras is that you can change everything about the mode, the metering and the white balance with one finger of your left hand and scrolling with your right thumb without ever having to take your eye from the viewfinder.

I've no idea why the fps mode suddenly becomes important enough to have its own dedicated button either.

There are also a few other omissions (such as the multi pin front remote connector) that are surprising but the AF/MF switch seemingly disappearing is quite baffling, even for users of Nikon's lower range DSLRs.

For the benefit of people who don't use Nikon bodies at the moment, the AF/MF switch also has a centre button which enables you to switch between AF modes really quickly using the thumbwheel when you hold it down and, again, all without taking your eye off the viewfinder.

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Its really puzzling what's happened here and as exciting as the new aspects of it may be, I'm not convinced they've done what everyone has expected them to do which is to make a mirrorless D850, irrespective of how close the specs are because it isn't comparable in one of the most important aspects of all.

If this thing is significantly cheaper than the D850 then those compromises might be acceptable but if its anything like the same price - and I've not seen anything to suggest otherwise - then I, for one long time Nikon user, won't be jumping on the merry go round this time round.

I'd completely accepted that a D5 style version will be somewhere further down the line but I'd definitely thought that this would be closer to a like for like D850 which suggests that there is likely a Z8 to come which will be even more expensive.

For someone coming late to the party - and having seen the lens lineup from Sony improve dramatically in the interim - I don't think they've gone big enough at all here with the Z7 especially when they are trying to push a new mount as well.

None of those choices have been governed by the body size either.

Puzzling and a little bit troubling to me but probably less so to the intended market.

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Disappointment for me.

specs are out, 30fps only in video. The Z6 has a bad AF for video so you need the expensive Z7. Unlike Sony who gave everything to the A7III, Nikon is doing like the D750/850 where only the latter has the good stuff. 

Z6 will be useless. Z7 is going to be a A7RIII with better ergonomics which is great but what I am supposed to do now? Have a Z6/Z7 for stills and A7S3 for video, or A73/R3 for stills and A7S3 for video so i can share the lenses....

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32 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

Disappointment for me.

specs are out, 30fps only in video. The Z6 has a bad AF for video so you need the expensive Z7. Unlike Sony who gave everything to the A7III, Nikon is doing like the D750/850 where only the latter has the good stuff. 

Z6 will be useless. Z7 is going to be a A7RIII with better ergonomics which is great but what I am supposed to do now? Have a Z6/Z7 for stills and A7S3 for video, or A73/R3 for stills and A7S3 for video so i can share the lenses....

These specs. Video af? from where?

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43 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'd completely accepted that a D5 style version will be somewhere further down the line but I'd definitely thought that this would be closer to a like for like D850 which suggests that there is likely a Z8 to come which will be even more expensive.

For someone coming late to the party - and having seen the lens lineup from Sony improve dramatically in the interim - I don't think they've gone big enough at all here with the Z7 especially when they are trying to push a new mount as well.

None of those choices have been governed by the body size either.

Puzzling and a little bit troubling to me but probably less so to the intended market.

I'm willing to bet with the Olympics coming we see a more sports oriented body that has the extra controls you're looking for. I'm also willing to bet the 2.8 zoom trinity will be in the wild by then, but the 400/2.8 might be missing. It'll be interesting to see the performance of the Z's with the adapter. 

Much like Canon, they have to start somewhere and it won't suit everyone wishes/needs out of the gate. Enthusiasts, gear heads and current Nikon shooters dipping a toe into mirrorless will probably be the early adopters. 

But compared to the original a7's, this looks like an absolute home run. 

Chris

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If they only do 4k30 I don't think it's going to do super well but who knows. 

I've heard Sony gear just falls apart over time so canikon would definitely have a leg up in terms of reputation for disability and ergonomics, but just matching Sony or less isn't going to sway all the people jumping to Sony.

Based on the specs these cameras are a bit underwhelming, and in terms of pricing not sure who they are going for.

Bigger mount for better ibis and better color are definite draws but they really could have made a bigger splash with the pricing and 4k60.

 

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47 minutes ago, Django said:

fully agreed but all this leads me to think these omissions are intentional as to not canibalize D850/DSLR sales..

Nikon-D850-vs-Nikon-Z7.jpg

different targets for sure..

I think the perspective is perhaps over selling the compactness a tiny bit there but it is a nice looking thing I'll give it that.

9 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

I'm willing to bet with the Olympics coming we see a more sports oriented body that has the extra controls you're looking for. I'm also willing to bet the 2.8 zoom trinity will be in the wild by then, but the 400/2.8 might be missing. It'll be interesting to see the performance of the Z's with the adapter. 

Much like Canon, they have to start somewhere and it won't suit everyone wishes/needs out of the gate. Enthusiasts, gear heads and current Nikon shooters dipping a toe into mirrorless will probably be the early adopters. 

Agreed and I wasn't expecting it be a D5 alternative but I definitely think it was a good opportunity to leave the locking PASM dial out and use the switched one instead but segmentation isn't only a Sony/Panasonic/Canon game ;) 

I think they might get more pushback over the ergonomics of this from D800/810 upgraders than people might anticipate though.

 

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Well they have 5 pounds of shit in a 2 pound bag on the back, top ,front now. I have no clue where they could of put more? I think it is way too cluttered, at least to me it is. And I think that LCD on the top is a waste of space. You are allowed to look in the viewfinder! That is a holdover that has sort of bit them in the ass.

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1 hour ago, Robert Collins said:

These specs. Video af? from where?

NikonRumors shared those specs this morning 100% reliable according to him.

58 minutes ago, Django said:

@wolf33d hold your horses, at this point we know nothing yet of the video AF. as a comparison, Canon 1DX2/5D4 only have 61 points of AF but have the amazing Dual Pixel AF covering 80-100% in live view/video mode.

See above. We know all about it. The AF points you talk about on Canon have nothing to do with video AF. Dual Pixel AF you do not count the point because all pixels are points. The official AF points for Nikon is 200ish and 400ish for Z6/Z7, see exact number on Nikon Rumors. 

A shame that Nikon decided to cripple the Z6. What is more a shame is only 4K30P.
Also IBIS is confirmed. 

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15 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

And I think that LCD on the top is a waste of space. You are allowed to look in the viewfinder! That is a holdover that has sort of bit them in the ass.

Agreed on that point. Space better utilized for more buttons or dials. Speaking of, I wonder if they're illuminated like the D850?

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I love the top LCD on my 5D3. At a quick glance I can see what my AF mode, ISO and WB is.

Also I know everybody here is doom and gloom and consider anything short of 10bit 4K 60p a failure and a death warrant for Nikon as a company, but please remember that only 5% or less of the potential buyers of this camera will care about those features... for us they matter, for the intended market... not so much.

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27 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

NikonRumors shared those specs this morning 100% reliable according to him.

See above. We know all about it. The AF points you talk about on Canon have nothing to do with video AF. Dual Pixel AF you do not count the point because all pixels are points. The official AF points for Nikon is 200ish and 400ish for Z6/Z7, see exact number on Nikon Rumors. 

A shame that Nikon decided to cripple the Z6. What is more a shame is only 4K30P.
Also IBIS is confirmed. 

Again you must be confused as the only info given on NR are the number of AF points. That doesn't give you the coverage % or the way it handles for video if Nikon by any chance have developed stuff like Eye autofocus or Dual Pixel AF. So no we don't know "all about it"..

Also the Z6 isn't that crippled. It's better at lowlight with higher ISO performance and higher FPS than Z7. And this at a much lower price.

@mercer Fully agreed on the top LCD, it's a must have feature for me, especially on cameras with no dedicated aperture, wb, shutter speed & iso controls..  hate having to gauge settings from back lcd or EVF.

 

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24 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

I still don’t get the absence of a rear wheel. This seems to be pretty basic on any enthusiast camera. Am I missing something?

The front control is recessed as per the other Nikon cameras but I'm presuming the other one that isn't is the rear one

1557669501_ScreenShot2018-08-22at17_10_38.jpg.93396ed4abdf142e8eda99880cc31d97.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Django said:

@mercer Fully agreed on the top LCD, it's a must have feature for me, especially on cameras with no dedicated aperture, wb, shutter speed & iso controls.. 

 

You have an EVF and a tilt LCD and you Need a top plate LCD? I am old with one eye and don't need that! Fine, fine then.

 

Fine.gif

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8 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The front control is recessed as per the other Nikon cameras but I'm presuming the other one that isn't is the rear one

1557669501_ScreenShot2018-08-22at17_10_38.jpg.93396ed4abdf142e8eda99880cc31d97.jpg

That rear one is the Pretend exposure dial That you WILL need the top plate LCD to use. Creepy 😲

creepy.gif

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