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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Absolutely.

Though at least with those two, fabricating an external battery was only a readily available connector away.

I am now seriously contemplating doing what I was only joking about yesterday and cutting the power cable in half and putting a barrel connector on to attach to the SmallRig Sony F battery converter.

The battery is definitely the weakest link. It was the same with the original pocket camera. 

It's handy to keep it small on the Ronin S, but needs a more robust solution for general shooting. I'll be interested to see what you come up with. I'm probably going to pick up a dummy battery for the short term.

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2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Aside from the 120fps tests, it seems like the XT3 and P4K are on par and he seems to prefer both over the others. From there, it depends if you're an editor/colourist or a shooter.

I said it a while ago, the the P4K is camera made for the post production, it's an editor's camera. The XT3 leans more towards SOOC.

I wonder where it would stand after being sharpened in post to the same extent the other cameras sharpen in camera.

Well If I would shoot witht he XT-3 and cutting it with ursa mini pro footage my life would be much easier to just shoot with the pocket. So for me the pocket is also shooting preferred. 

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1 hour ago, Scott_W said:

I'll be interested to see what you come up with. I'm probably going to pick up a dummy battery for the short term.

Ideally, I'll use BM's cable pack but its still not materialised and doesn't have an accurate delivery time from what I can see.

The short term fix for me is to literally cut the mains cable and put a barrel connector on it to fit on to this BMCC/BMPCC battery plate that I already have a couple of 

71paQKtyKSL._SL1500_.thumb.jpg.b1397f1885bc9689438f40bbfd501b45.jpg

If I put a matching socket on the now bare wire that leads to the BM PSU then I can still quickly connect them back together to make it back into a mains supply/charger.

The added advantage is I can also then have some easy options for car charging etc.

All of that will be possible with the real cable kit of course but who knows when that might be and this is a viable solution in the short term, especially as I have all the parts to hand ;)

That's the other issue with the 2 pin locking connector that BM are using in that its not actually proprietary (its a Weipu SF610/S2) but its not the sort of thing your local hardware store is going to have in stock and is even tricky enough to get online that it might as well be proprietary !

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56 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Because it makes post production easier 😂

Yeah I guess its a weird sentence, but they kinda go togheter. You can't have one without the other. Im not sure what benefits the XT-3 would give me while shooting as I should everything manual anyway. 

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5 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Based on that thumbnail - it's like the ugly duckling. Least attractive of the bunch, but in the end will be the most stunning of them all...

That's just an assumption though, I didn't see the video yet. Let me know if I'm wrong.

You're wrong!

58 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Yeah I guess its a weird sentence, but they kinda go togheter. You can't have one without the other. Im not sure what benefits the XT-3 would give me while shooting as I should everything manual anyway. 

True... weather-sealing, magnesium build, tilt screen, better slow-mo, excellent color science, battery grip that extends life out to the two hour region and being a excellent stills camera is of no value to us manual shooters. Meanwhile back in the real-world...

 

IMG_1553.jpg

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I've seen it now - It's ok to be wrong.

Other than the 120fps test though, I get the impression it's very a close call between the XT3 and P4k. 

Both are fantastic, but serve slightly different purposes, so your needs dictate which is better for you.

Now do a test where you have the same shots with each camera, and you're editing on matching hardware.

Which one allows for the fastest workflow? I think P4K

Which one needs the least adjustments? I think XT3

Which one lets you manipulate the image more? I think P4K

Which one leaves some space on your hard drive? I think XT3

Which one is more fun to edit? I think P4K

Pick what matters most to you and run with that. 

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25 minutes ago, DBounce said:

You're wrong!

True... weather-sealing, magnesium build, tilt screen, better slow-mo, excellent color science, battery grip that extends life out to the two hour region and being a excellent stills camera is of no value to us manual shooters. Meanwhile back in the real-world...

 

yeah I said Im not sure what benefits there are, thx for listing them though. Not for mocking me...
From this list i'm not sure the color science is better then the pocket 4K though. I always like the fuji colours while shooting stills, but I have not seen any great fuji video's yet. 

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1 minute ago, zerocool22 said:

yeah I said Im not sure what benefits there are, thx for listing them though. Not for mocking me...
From this list i'm not sure the color science is better then the pocket 4K though. I always like the fuji colours while shooting stills, but I have not seen any great fuji video's yet. 

It’s the same color science in videos as in stills. It’s our job to create those great videos. 

My bad... Not mocking... being English sarcasm runs deep with me. Peace!

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Just a note that the 'soft edges' discussion on BMC user has moved forward significantly.  Kin869 has uploaded loads more examples.  The upshot is that (unless his camera is an exception) if you are using a non telecentric wide angle lens (native or speed boosted) and you shoot a wide shot you will probably see an edge softness issue at any aperture wider than f5.6.

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26 minutes ago, MattH said:

Just a note that the 'soft edges' discussion on BMC user has moved forward significantly.  Kin869 has uploaded loads more examples.  The upshot is that (unless his camera is an exception) if you are using a non telecentric wide angle lens (native or speed boosted) and you shoot a wide shot you will probably see an edge softness issue at any aperture wider than f5.6.

I hope Blackmagic addresses this via firmware update and not just one of the 'quirks' to be ignored like hardcore P4K posters want to happen. I also want to purchase a P4K in the future but so far some issues that are cropping up are:

  • Soft edges in wide angle lenses
  • Red light clipping
  • Battery getting stuck
  • Battery doors suddenly opening
  • SSD like T3 not immediately recognized

I'm not really sure about 'image quality is above everything' agenda but I'm hoping these things that are fixable

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4 minutes ago, TurboRat said:
  • Red light clipping

This has been addressed and can be fixed in post by changing the way the files are processed. Workflow posted a few pages back.

  • Battery getting stuck

This happened to me only once. Now, the very same battery doesn't get stuck, even when it's been used from full charge to flat in a single session. Not sure about other users.

  • Battery doors suddenly opening

As far as I know this only happened to one person on here, it seems likely it's a single faulty camera that can be replace (stock dependant of course)

  • SSD like T3 not immediately recognized

I've found this is only a problem if you insert the drive while the camera is running. If you have the camera off, plug in the drive, then turn the camera on, there's no issue (for me anyway)

 

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21 minutes ago, TurboRat said:

I hope Blackmagic addresses this via firmware update and not just one of the 'quirks' to be ignored like hardcore P4K posters want to happen. I also want to purchase a P4K in the future but so far some issues that are cropping up are:

  • Soft edges in wide angle lenses
  • Red light clipping 
  • Battery getting stuck
  • Battery doors suddenly opening
  • SSD like T3 not immediately recognized

I'm not really sure about 'image quality is above everything' agenda but I'm hoping these things that are fixable

I don't have any issue on all those options you are listed here on my own BMPCC4K (yet).

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22 minutes ago, TurboRat said:

I hope Blackmagic addresses this via firmware update and not just one of the 'quirks' to be ignored like hardcore P4K posters want to happen. I also want to purchase a P4K in the future but so far some issues that are cropping up are:

  • Soft edges in wide angle lenses

I tried the Samyang 8mm last night and found the whole thing quite soft, speed boosted or not. This lens has never been the sharpest wide open, but it was consistently soft rather than being softer towards the edges. I've also shot with a variety of ultra wide Nikons via dumb and speed booster adapters, and an m43 Samyang 12mm and not seen any sharpness problems. 

  • Red light clipping

I haven't had an issue with this, but have noted the ability to fix it

  • Battery getting stuck

Not had this at all - I've tried 3 different brands, from Canon to cheap(ish) brands and ran them all until depleted and hot. 

  • Battery doors suddenly opening

Not had this at all - after watching the video posted on this thread, I tried to recreate it, but failed. My guess is that this is an isolated issue with a sticky catch. Either way, the battery won't fly out because there is another internal catch. 

  • SSD like T3 not immediately recognized

I have had some issues with the T5 not being recognised. Not sure what causes this. However, on the occasions it has happened, a restart of the camera solved it. 

I'm not really sure about 'image quality is above everything' agenda but I'm hoping these things that are fixable

 

 

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38 minutes ago, TurboRat said:

I hope Blackmagic addresses this via firmware update and not just one of the 'quirks' to be ignored like hardcore P4K posters want to happen. I also want to purchase a P4K in the future but so far some issues that are cropping up are:

  • Soft edges in wide angle lenses
  • Red light clipping
  • Battery getting stuck
  • Battery doors suddenly opening
  • SSD like T3 not immediately recognized

I'm not really sure about 'image quality is above everything' agenda but I'm hoping these things that are fixable

I doubt it is a firmware issue causing the soft edges.  More likely due to the physical nature of the sensor such as the sensor stack thickness or the nature of micro lenses or lack of.  Ideally it could be a flaw with that camera in particular, but thats being optimistic.

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23 minutes ago, MattH said:

I doubt it is a firmware issue causing the soft edges.  More likely due to the physical nature of the sensor such as the sensor stack thickness or the nature of micro lenses or lack of.  Ideally it could be a flaw with that camera in particular, but thats being optimistic.

I would think it is from them not having any software corrections for Vignetting,  Barrel Distortion , Pincushion, on and on. Most lenses are crap on the wide end new or old. A lot of the old lens suck at having poor coatings ,or if they have it are half wore off, or have swirl marks from hell. Fungus in older lenses adds to it also.

Having a camera with No corrections is not very conducive to super great output, especially once you get below 18mm FF equivalent. Back in the day anything wider than that in FF was a Fisheye lens

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9 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I would think it is from them not having any software corrections for Vignetting,  Barrel Distortion , Pincushion, on and on. Most lenses are crap on the wide end new or old. A lot of the old lens suck at having poor coatings ,or if they have it are half wore off, or have swirl marks from hell. Fungus in older lenses adds to it also.

Having a camera with No corrections is not very conducive to super great output, especially once you get below 18mm FF equivalent. Back in the day anything wider than that in FF was a Fisheye lens

Have you looked at the samples?  The main lenses compared are maunal lenses.  The Laowa 7.5mm and Samyang 12mm, which dont have any corrections happening in any camera.  These tests even show these lenses at f2 on a GX85 out performing themselves at f5.6 (even f8) on the Pocket4k.

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3 minutes ago, MattH said:

Have you looked at the samples?  The main lenses compared are maunal lenses.  The Laowa 7.5mm and Samyang 12mm, which dont have any corrections happening in any camera.  These tests even show these lenses at f2 on a GX85 out performing themselves at f5.6 (even f8) on the Pocket4k.

Not on the edges that I see. Sure I would hope using 12 bit Raw you get better results than a GX85 can produce .

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54 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I would think it is from them not having any software corrections for Vignetting,  Barrel Distortion , Pincushion, on and on. Most lenses are crap on the wide end new or old. A lot of the old lens suck at having poor coatings ,or if they have it are half wore off, or have swirl marks from hell. Fungus in older lenses adds to it also.

Having a camera with No corrections is not very conducive to super great output, especially once you get below 18mm FF equivalent. Back in the day anything wider than that in FF was a Fisheye lens

In camera corrections do not fix edge softness and infact due to the correction warping of the image they often make it worse. This is simply a physical phenomenon of lens exit pupil position in relation to the sensor, a difference in sensor filter thickness and the larger sensor of the P4k. Also some lenses are very good at their widest setting and wide open - my OL12-40 2.8 is sharper at the edges and corners than my 12-35 2.8 and 12-60 2.8-4 even when these are stopped down to optimum apertures. I do however worry that these lenses when used on the P4k where they are not corrected for distortion and CA will not look great. I'll find out tomorrow when my camera arrives ( or Monday...)

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You are probably right. But with the crop in this camera you have to go Wide as hell to get wide. And the wider you get the worse it is going to get. And with no corrections, I can sort of see why they did it, it might end up being it's Achilles Heal for what most people would like to use it for.

And most Anamorphic lenses REALLY suck at the edges to start with that are affordable. So it will be interesting. Some of it can add to the mood, but some of it can kill the mood also. Interesting camera for sure, good and bad.

I would still like to buy one. I have sort of got hooked on 16mm on my Sony A7s. So I would have to go to 8mm on the PK4. Might get interesting doing that. Not worried about the 120 crop, I would not go that slow I think.

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