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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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17 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

Blackmagic has been showcasing the feature pretty heavily since the camera's announcement. I think it's safe to assume that the functionality will be exactly as intended.

BM covers the topic in two sequential sections on their website even.

Anyone can say anything in their marketing materials.  I've bought enough tech that has had enough quirks that I know only real world usage will reveal all the issues.

I guess you weren't around for all the trial and error with the original BMPCC and SD cards?

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1 minute ago, Damphousse said:

Anyone can say anything in their marketing materials.  I've bought enough tech that has had enough quirks that I know only real world usage will reveal all the issues.

I guess you weren't around for all the trial and error with the original BMPCC and SD cards?

I certainly was around for that. Those were early days. BM was still young & inexperienced and SD cards were not up to the same read/write standards that they are today. The landscape has massively shifted since then. 

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29 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

I certainly was around for that. Those were early days. BM was still young & inexperienced and SD cards were not up to the same read/write standards that they are today. The landscape has massively shifted since then. 

There were data rate issues with BMD recommended SD cards ?

jb

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13 minutes ago, John Brawley said:

There were data rate issues with BMD recommended SD cards ?

jb

No specific issues with BM and SD cards. The issue was that the Pocket cam required fast write speeds that very few cards had at the time. Card manufacturers were labeling cards with max read speed which confused users when they wouldn't work in the Pocket. BM's only fault was not clarifying this for users. Ultimately, it wasn't their fault, but they could have helped educate users to alleviate the frustrations. Whether BM's intention or not, the Pocket was eaten up by consumers who had little to no knowledge of card speeds. 

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1 hour ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

I certainly was around for that. Those were early days. BM was still young & inexperienced and SD cards were not up to the same read/write standards that they are today. The landscape has massively shifted since then. 

I respectfully disagree.  Tons of manufactures were using SD cards to record pictures and video internally for years before Blackmagic got into the game.  Blackmagic merely wanted to write data at a higher volume than most.  No one that I know of is using USB C drives to record raw externally straight from the camera.  It is a completely novel approach unlike SD cards when the BMPCC was announced.

I can't understand how you can be so confident about something we have never seen in the wild.  I hope it works as advertised and it is something I definitely want to pick up in the future if it pans out.  But it is insane to say this drive or that drive will work flawlessly at this stage. The Samsung T5 looks interesting but I couldn't possibly comment on other drives.  Just have to wait and see.

And I certainly wouldn't buy anything until I had the camera in hand so I could test it all myself.

1 hour ago, Snowfun said:

What is the optimum way of saving raw files - internal cfast or the T5 ssd? I’d rather not have to buy both so it would be interesting to hear views.

Other manufactures do raw to internal cfast cards no problem.  See Canon's C200.  And of course Blackmagic's own URSA Mini Pro 4.6K.  Cfast cards are a proven bullet proof solution.  If I had to guess I would think internal recording to Cfast cards would be the "best" way to record.  The problem is Cfast cards are damn expensive.

Some people in this thread have mentioned USB C port reliability.  Obviously you have to mount the USB C drive somewhere and then you have a cable snaking around your rig.  It introduces multiple points of possible failure.  I haven't seen a port protector solution for the USB C port yet.  I am surprised there aren't more people working on that issue.  If someone came up with a mounting and port protector solution for external power and the USB C port I think they would do well.

I don't mean to be negative about the USB C route.  But looking at the situation objectively raises a number of questions.

51 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

No specific issues with BM and SD cards. The issue was that the Pocket cam required fast write speeds that very few cards had at the time. Card manufacturers were labeling cards with max read speed which confused users when they wouldn't work in the Pocket. BM's only fault was not clarifying this for users. Ultimately, it wasn't their fault, but they could have helped educate users to alleviate the frustrations. Whether BM's intention or not, the Pocket was eaten up by consumers who had little to no knowledge of card speeds. 

Actually I remember Blackmagic "clarifying" things.  And I also remember after the "clarification" them removing cards from their recommended list.  At launch Blackmagic themselves couldn't tell us with 100% certitude which old tech SD cards would work.  I certainly don't think an anonymous person on the internet can list for us all the USB C drives that will work with the BMPCC 4k before the camera has even launched.

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3 hours ago, SR said:

Any reason the SanDisk wouldn't work as well as the Samsung?

I don't know much, but the read/write speeds seem to suggest it'll work just fine.

SanDisk is 500MB/s write and Samsung is 515MB/s write. I can't imagine the difference being enough to worry about

I like the little loop in the corner, make's for a nice place to connect the drive to the camera, minimising risk of losing a connection. 

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On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 10:38 PM, jonpais said:

are you saying the RX100 has more tech than the GH5? Does it have anamorphic mode, 10-bit internal, full HDMI out, the ability to save all settings to an SD card, waveform monitor, truly usable touch screen, fully articulating LCD, 4K 60p unlimited recording, and on and on? If the batcam had all the features of Sony, Panasonic or Fuji, it would cost in the same ballpark. 

Compared to the equivalent Panasonic camera, it does have more tech included. For it's form factor the RX100 series without question are technologically the class leader.

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What I recall is 99% of people that complained about media issues didn’t use cards from BMD’s list.  I know that they also struggled to keep up with the SSD list because it takes a while to certify media and the manufacturers were constantly changing the performance.  I vaguely recall one of the SSD drives that WAS recommended wouldn’t work when they went to the next generartion of the same branded media.  That’s not on BMD.

It is why they changed to CFAST though even though everyone seems to think SSD are the perfect solution and always work.  Go look on BMD’s forums at the number of complaints over SSD’s with the original BMCC.

I personally worry about USB-C as a port for reliable use.  I would hope someon comes out with a cage or mount that locks that plug down.

I’ll be sticking to CFAST.

JB

 

 

 

 

 

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*agreed .  that USC_C looks like it won't hold up to field use.  likely will need a cage with port protector and maybe breakaway cable.  (hopefully) not breaking away will recording raw. LOL

500GB is still 127 on  b and h website

 

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3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I can't understand how you can be so confident about something we have never seen in the wild.  I hope it works as advertised and it is something I definitely want to pick up in the future if it pans out.  But it is insane to say this drive or that drive will work flawlessly at this stage. The Samsung T5 looks interesting but I couldn't possibly comment on other drives.  Just have to wait and see.

I'm confident because I believe the tech makes sense. Really... the signal remains as raw data off the sensor and processor and is recorded to the SDD just as it would the internal SD or cFast cards. The speed of the port and the speed of the drive make it all feasible. A layman to this side of the tech (me) can understand this much more easily than even pulling raw video from a feed through SDI to a monitor.

BM has evolved as a company and so I'm confident that if they make this promise, they'll follow through with it. I could be wrong, but even if I am I'm only out $200 and I still get a nice SSD ;)

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I certainly don't think an anonymous person on the internet can list for us all the USB C drives that will work with the BMPCC 4k before the camera has even launched.

My username is my business name; there's nothing anonymous about it. Regardless, I only endorsed the Samsung t5 because that is what BM has shown in materials and at trade shows. I bought a t5 myself in preparation for the camera's launch, so I put my {Prime Day discount} money where my mouth is 😄

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1 hour ago, John Brawley said:

What I recall is 99% of people that complained about media issues didn’t use cards from BMD’s list.  I know that they also struggled to keep up with the SSD list because it takes a while to certify media and the manufacturers were constantly changing the performance.  I vaguely recall one of the SSD drives that WAS recommended wouldn’t work when they went to the next generartion of the same branded media.  That’s not on BMD.

Not looking to blame anyone least of all Blackmagic.  Just illustrating for people some thought, care, and patience is advised.   If people went into these things with a bit more patience and real world information there would be a lot less noise on the forums from people complaining about this and that.

We asked for a high performance machine and Blackmagic has delivered again and again.  But it is a high performance machine and needs to be respected.  No sense rushing in and then posting complaints all over the internet.

17 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

My username is my business name; there's nothing anonymous about it. Regardless, I only endorsed the Samsung t5 because that is what BM has shown in materials and at trade shows. I bought a t5 myself in preparation for the camera's launch, so I put my {Prime Day discount} money where my mouth is 😄

Cool.  I'm not dropping hundreds of dollars on unreviewed cutting edge tech for a camera that isn't even out yet.  I at least want the opportunity to return something if it doesn't meet my expectations.

It's a free country.  Anyone can do whatever they want with their money.  But as Brawley pointed out people have a tendency to create a lot of unnecessary noise on the internet after they rush into something.

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1 minute ago, Damphousse said:

Cool.  I'm not dropping hundreds of dollars on unreviewed cutting edge tech for a camera that isn't even out yet.  I at least want the opportunity to return something if it doesn't meet my expectations.

It's a free country.  Anyone can do whatever they want with their money.  But as Brawley pointed out people have a tendency to create a lot of unnecessary noise on the internet after they rush into something.

I understand completely. I'm willing to take the risk, but I also know that I could be completely wrong. I'm one of the few that will rush out and take that risk, but won't complain if I get burned by it. Thanks for the back and forth, man. ✌️

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7 hours ago, LtJTMarsh said:

there was a hot deal few days ago for the T5, anyone know if you can get curly USB C cable ?

I got it during the deal. This is all you get. USB C to C and USB C to A cables.

3EEA620A-8F9F-48A2-BDFE-A192A7FCB6F8.jpeg

 

Saved me on my vacation last week when I had to do some major color changes on my new music video coming live in a week. Shot solely handheld on BMPCC with 2 lenses. I’ll post it here when it’s live! Such a beast, BMPCC4K can only be better!

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just got mine too.  waiting for the pocket4k as well.    primeday was great, i got a MFT speedbooster for 138 bucks,  paired it with the tokina 28-70mm on the pocket cinema and it worked great, cant wait to try on P4K.

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8sinn is building cable clamps that go on the pocket 4K and hold the cable in place.

you could also get a usb-c right angle extender and find some solution to hold that in place as it will be very rigid as well as provide an entirely new port to plug and unplug the cable from, preventing damage to the camera.  CFast is way more elegant, but USB is not too bad for long recording on a tripod where the camera won't be moved or touched that often.

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1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

8sinn is building cable clamps that go on the pocket 4K and hold the cable in place.

you could also get a usb-c right angle extender and find some solution to hold that in place as it will be very rigid as well as provide an entirely new port to plug and unplug the cable from, preventing damage to the camera.  CFast is way more elegant, but USB is not too bad for long recording on a tripod where the camera won't be moved or touched that often.

How can you be so sure of yourself when you have never recorded by USB-C? And why does BMD keep publishing photos of someone actually holding the drive in their hands? Strange marketing...

For example, I see several filmmakers have already had troubles with the HDMI port and mic input on their a7 III. And Fuji’s X-T2 has issues with monitoring externally when shooting F-log. In other words, we can’t know anything until the camera is actually released.

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