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Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

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Inazuma, I'm sorry ... it almost looks like you're in a Gh5 or NX-1 thread here :-)

What I read here (are only 3 or 4) unbelievably many subjective things ..... and no - they certainly did not have any x-t2 in their hands ... let alone worked with one (except inazuma, jonpais, django, etc.)

The good Colorscience of Fuji is undisputed in "professional circles" (in contrast to the colors of a Gh5 or pana) ... but what makes the man "behind" the camera with it is yet another story.

What I read here of some unfortunately has little to do with an objective factual discussion ... Sorry

@jonpais

I'll probably buy one ... my local dealer is very nice and I can possibly try it over a weekend.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
57 minutes ago, jonpais said:

a lot of activity here... is anyone actually going to buy this camera?

I am. Shifting one of my XT2's for the XH1.

The more I see, the more I'm looking forward to it. IBIS looks much better than Sony's first effort, Fuji really did their homework with the mechanism and the dual processors. Its faster for shooting action than any current Fuji, and the XT2 is no slouch. I like the bigger grip and the touchscreen. Yes as you've pointed out, there's room for improvement with info on the display, the implementation of the touchscreen and the need for the grip to really make it a complete camera. 60p would be nice, but its not a deal breaker for me. The camera will get better with updates as well. I was watching the Fuji Guy with the Camera Store duo last night, it sounded like he hinted that there's room for a video oriented camera in Fuji's lineup. IMO Fuji is moving toward more video features, a XV1 seems inevitable. They're just so beholden to a group of curmudgeon still shooters that whine about any feature beyond pushing a button to take a photo, so there moving slower than others.

Might be the end of my time with Sony and the a7r2/s2. Though giving up the 42mp stills will be tough...

Chris

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9 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

But when I see footage from an Alexa, RED, BMD, Canon (cinema) only the eyes are in crisp detail, everything else is somehow smoother or more "weighted". Skin looks thicker and there's generally a sense of more dimension in what the camera resolves. I also notice edges don't suffer from chromatic aberration, or edge fringing. 

One of these days I'll be able to put it in better technical terms. Maybe someone here can help with that? 

 

"The sensor readout of this raw Bayer frame is provided as uncompressed, 12 bit log ARRIRAW data" From Alexa website.

I think that Is the secret of Arri, Red, a Blackmagic camera is 12 bit, 14 bit Raw plain and simple. Look how good a ML 5D mk III is. It is the Raw, and at a higher bit rate to boot. And it is not sensor size either, look how good a BMPCC looks. When we get 12,14 bit Raw in one of these 3000 dollar or less DSLR's or Mirrorless cameras than I guess we really may have a mini Alexa for cheap. Now for Color Science in one, well you know and I know that is baked in each manufacturers camera, but with Raw we have a bit more latitude to alter it. And yes we do have cheap Raw, ProRes BM cameras, but not a Sony, or a Panny, or even this Fuji.

None of the above cameras, at least to me, are Razor sharp, they have smooth roll offs and soft edges in a good way, and somewhat muted colors. More Pastel than Kodachrome like.

Now Technicolor was over the top movie film wise. But a little bit of that went a long ways to me. I was more of a B&W movie guy to be honest.

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10 hours ago, anonim said:

For me, as I wrote - color strategy of Panasonic GH is to sugest completely neutral, i. e. human-eyes-seen reality... It is high task, usually belongs to league above. Nothing illegitimate or wrong to have different strategy, especially for prosumer market -

 

I would bet if Jon would have said the above pictures were from this new Fuji camera everyone on here would have said Shit, they look great, I am buying that Beautiful color output Fuji Today LoL. :grin:

These new GH5, GH5s are NOT the old Panasonic colors wise we have known for years.

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14 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I would bet if Jon would have said the above pictures were from this new Fuji camera everyone on here would have said Shit, they look great, I am buying that Beautiful color output Fuji Today LoL. :grin:

Yes, but luckily in all similar selfie-myths there is one Bearer of truth who wake up in the last minute and come out against everyone else how blindly follow figure of seductive Moderator...

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37 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I would bet if Jon would have said the above pictures were from this new Fuji camera everyone on here would have said Shit, they look great, I am buying that Beautiful color output Fuji Today LoL. :grin:

These new GH5, GH5s are NOT the old Panasonic colors wise we have known for years.

I'm impressed at how lifelike they look but not with the look itself. The image doesn't really speak to me the way a fuji's does. The G80 has a similar thing. Great, lifelike image (apart from when it sometimes decides to go radioactive) but not inspiring. This is all very subjective mumbojumbo though and i would not expect everyone to carry the same opinion. 

@jonpais Were they colour corrected or just a curve correction?

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@Inazuma I just applied a LUT in FCP and used the color board. This was before FCP added curves. Two of them are too dark and the color may be a bit red to my liking now. I also prefer the color of HLG to Cinelike D. Better minds than mine could do a much better job. You already know how long I’ve been struggling with color correction. 

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A year ago, I was just as infatuated with Fuji color as @Emanuel is today. Whenever I saw someone with a Fuji slung over their shoulder, I couldn’t help but go up to them and get them to talk about their experience with the camera. All were stills shooters, including my best friend here, and their work was all generally of a very high quality. The X-T2 was like a work of art.The lenses are seriously incredible objects worthy of study by other Asian camera manufacturers. It was only when I began shooting with one that I found myself continually comparing the Fuji to my Panasonic cameras. The LCD going blank when pressing the record button while looking through the EVF. The lack of histogram or zebras. Setting shutter speed with physical controls requiring adjusting two dials. And so on. And what really upset me was that hardly any reviewers at the time mentioned any of this. Of course, firmware updates have subsequently fixed many of the things that annoyed me at the time. So no, while my criticisms in these pages have a basis in my actual experience as a Fuji owner, they are far from impartial. 

From the time I was a child, I’d always been fascinated with photography. My very first camera was a pinhole camera made with an oatmeal box and a piece of tin foil. In college, I specialized in historic and non-silver printing processes as well as printmaking, and made color separation negatives for gravure plates. I don’t want anyone to get the impression that I think you should just be able to press a trigger and end up with an Ansel Adams or anything.

However, concerning my attitude toward gear nowadays, I just want something that is reliable and convenient to use, as long as the image quality is good. Anyhow, back on point, I think people should be aware of the whole picture, not just what Gordon Laing, Tony Northrup or whoever preaches. Fuji cameras are a joy to behold, the image quality can at times be absolutely stunning and they’re rounding out an impressive collection of glass. But image quality alone is not the be all and end all for me. I’m not, nor have I ever been a pixel peeper. Back in college, nobody thought twice about 16X20 black and white prints with grain the size of golfballs.

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17 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

1.) Rent a very expensive cine lens the size of a small canon, probably on a PL mount.

The lens gives the image a personality or character. You are actually mostly looking for imperfection here.

2.) Good diffused lighting, staying away from extreme contrast ratios and harsh shadows with short falloffs, especially if you're shooting in 8/10 bit in camera. 

3.) Camera settings. Go flat if you can't shoot RAW. Turn down or off internal sharpness and reduce contrast. Saturation can be left at default. 

4.) Set a custom white balance using a white or 50% grey card. This will help you greatly in post get an accurate color balance. You should fair well with your Fuji. 

5.) Subtle grading. Most ppl want to fill up their entire waveform chart and have deep contrast, but I think the sweet spot in emulating film is sitting 10-15% below 100 and 5-10% above zero. This is obviously subjective and contextual, and rightfully should be. Learn about qualifiers. 

6.) Tiffen Pro Mist 1/4 (or silimar) helps reduce digital sharpness. Industry even uses them on $60k cameras. 

7.) Aviod handheld with cameras that have bad rolling shutter and jitter. If you need that look add it in post with tracked camera shake presets. You'll spend much less time not having to fuss with warp stabilizer, which in practical terms is no magic pill. 

8.) Movement/Composition/Line/Texture/Contrast ratios/Lighting/Visual Narrative/Sound/Musicality. Study up on these subjects. They will boost your production value x10 even on a Dora the Explorer Fisher Price camera. Swiper, no god damn swiping!

Hehe thanks but I was seeking for more specific answers related to the X-T20 camera. It's purely technical. I don't know Matt if you've ever shot some piece with a fuji camera but the video handling is quite tricky. It's easy to get crushed blacks and also there's this waxy skin tones issue well known of Fuji users. Adding some grain helps breaking this banding/waxy effect but I don't think it is satisfying. Anyway the video results I get are a bit underwhelming... Although, once again, the jpegs ootc are stellar ! But Fuji film simulations I think, don't handle well the kind of compression the codec/bitrate gives. Maybe it'll be better with this new film simulation and this 200mb codec...

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@anonim (what's your real : D name BTW?) 8-bit is only a number like any other. And its visible limits much more prone to actually be consequence of short low bit rate from those old days now and meaningful color space than anything else...

@jonpais Jon, my old good fellow of these boards, you know my Fuji love didn't pop up yesterday night nor the day before ;-) without mention more than an opinion their superior color science is a solid fact to everyone except those crippled by mother nature when only protanopia does them be unable to see...

 

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Damn I want this camera. But I don't need it for the project I'm working on. It doesn't need to look that good and the X-H1 with a couple lenses would be about half my budget. But, damn, I want it. Wait til the next project...just wait...deep breaths...

(I do wish, however, that they had taken the little toggle switch from the X-E3 to change drive modes instead of that knob under the other knob like the X-T2).

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Mini-Alexa. End of story.

9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I would bet if Jon would have said the above pictures were from this new Fuji camera everyone on here would have said Shit, they look great, I am buying that Beautiful color output Fuji Today LoL. :grin:

These new GH5, GH5s are NOT the old Panasonic colors wise we have known for years.

You're right on those both ones beyond neglecting Fujifilm fact as an unforgivable hehe exception that confirms the rule ;-)

BTW don't hold your breathe too much on RAW, Don : ) It is an amazing tool but you can mimic enough on material shot on 8-bit much more than people tend to let it expressed in these lines over internet :-)

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On 2/17/2018 at 10:36 AM, mkabi said:

Lastly, yes... 70mm seems like a lot of distance, but thats about 2.75 inches... now it doesn't seem like a lot does it?


My girlfriend doesn't think it is a lot.

 

 

On 2/17/2018 at 5:07 PM, jonpais said:

Re: Top Plate LCD Screens

were required for SLRs and early  DSLRs as there was no other place to display camera data. But now all LCD screen data and much more can be displayed on the rear monitor and/or EVF if fitted, making the LCD screen redundant. Yet these relics of the past keep reappearing on modern cameras (such as the Sony RX10, 1,2,3.) which have no requirement for such a display which takes up valuable camera real estate which could be put to better use.


The benefits of top LCDs are:

1) they can use a different screen tech (such as e-ink), which can bring other benefits such as conserving battery power and better outdoor visibility. 
2) can squeeze on yet more info (leaving off info from the main screen, freeing up space for other things or just simply to see the scene more clearly without clutter), and viewable from other angles (for instance a top LCD is handy for street shooters who shoot from the hip). 

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On 2/17/2018 at 7:54 PM, jonpais said:

Yes, I can see how vlogging with a C700 makes more sense than with a GH5.  Body alone weighs 8 pounds. Oh, and spare change? $28,000? Would you be so kind as to share some of your vlogs? Unusual, since you were so anxious as to whether an app would work with your XC10, but now it's somehow no longer important...

eos-c700-kit-675x450.jpg


I'm sure Pranti is joking/trolling!

But then again I do use my Sony PMW-F3 for vlogs (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCniNTuAtkFiSCQNfIaw9SJw)

Maybe in 2025 I'll be using a C700 instead? :-D haha

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