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Mattias Burling

The Canon C200 is here and its a bomb!

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45 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

Exactly. C-Log is really really good. I couldn't get my FS700/7Q 10 bit 4k files to look as good as the XC10 did. The only thing holding it back was the lens options.

I can't any info on this. Does the camera output 10bit/422 1080 and 4k/10bit/422? Is there a 60p out of the SDI or HDMI?

I'm buying one.

no 4k 10 bit out by the looks of it, bummer

 

Screen Shot 2017-05-31 at 6.42.34 AM  May 31.jpg

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
2 minutes ago, ade towell said:

no 4k 10 bit out by the looks of it, bummer

 

Screen Shot 2017-05-31 at 6.42.34 AM  May 31.jpg

Well UHD, which is good enough for me since almost everything is 16:9 deliver anyway...

Looks like it is HDMI 2 - 10 bit/422 out. I haven't heard if you need a license or anything. 

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I still don't get why people invest big money on camera only to do low budget stuff, that doesn't make sense economical wise in terms of return from investment.

This job I m doing right now is over 10k pay rate, the fourth one this year that are 5 digit budget. Just wish c200 have 422 10bit as some client need those, guess I still have to keep that ninja blade just for this arghh ( at least file format is 422 10bit even though technically it is not 10bit lol)

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9 hours ago, cpc said:

24-bit audio, time code, genlock. Possibly other niceties.

Also, c300II is priced at $12k, so it is $3K more, not 7k.

At 1 gbps their raw is less data than ProRes444. It is around 3:1 compressed. Withholding the XF-AVC codec for 2018 is actually kinda smart cause they buy some time to see what comes next from Pana/Sony, and at the same time don't kill the C300II immediately.

No, I don't think it has anything to do with withholding stuff. I have just noticed from their press release that the camera has a DV6 processor - that is a new one. It probably has a different encoder than the earlier DV5 processors, so hardware encoding for 4K will have different bit rates (as well as higher frame rates). There may not be any higher bit rates as a result. 

The high bit rates with DV5 were likely due to computational restraints to keep the processor in it's thermal envelope. A lower bit rate means more computation and implies that the DV6 is more thermally efficient, which is very good news for Canonites in the greater scheme of things. The implication of the new processor that people are perhaps not picking up on is that there will be a corresponding stills processor, the Digic 8, which will be the sibling of the DV6. It means that hardware encoding of 4K video might finally arrive in Canon consumer cameras (as well as the prosumer ones which currently are forced to use mjpeg as a codec).

5 hours ago, Philip Lipetz said:

Don't forget that the 2018 internal 4K upgrade will be 8 bit only. The 1080 is only 35mps. All of these specs fall just a little short of what I am asked to deliver. RAW is nice but none of my jobs   ask for RAW, they hate it.

The C200 is an enthusiast camera.  Great for passsion projects and micro budget narratives, not for my niche, event and quick turn around docs Just so you don't think I am a Canon hater we have had several C100s at time, both models, but time moves on. We sold ours  

I hope the Panasonic Cinema cam fits our needs. 

That is because the hardware encoder in the processor is really designed with consumer cameras in mind. Parts of it will be based on logic carried over from earlier Digic processors (hence the 35 mbps) while other parts are new. The new processor and the implications of it are the really important piece of news IMO, far more important than the C200 itself. It tells us what sort of video performance consumer cameras from Canon in 2018 are probably going to have.

46 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

I still don't get why people invest big money on camera only to do low budget stuff, that doesn't make sense economical wise in terms of return from investment.

This job I m doing right now is over 10k pay rate, the fourth one this year that are 5 digit budget. Just wish c200 have 422 10bit as some client need those, guess I still have to keep that ninja blade just for this arghh ( at least file format is 422 10bit even though technically it is not 10bit lol)

If you are a professional, spending 8k on equipment needed to do your job is normal and reasonable. 

If you were a contractor in the construction business you would not skimp out on your truck for example. You would get the one that was tough enough and sturdy enough to get the job done without any problems. I am not sure why people in the imaging business think things are different for them.

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48 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

Good Canon, now why dont you stop being an asshole and release a FF mirrorless camera with that king of video spec, even without RAW? Damn. 

The reason they have not done that before is because the processors available to them were not up to the task. This is a new generation of processor though, so perhaps the corresponding Digic 8 will be able to handle it in 2018. Powershots usually introduce the next generation of Digic stills processors, so perhaps we might see a Powershot with a Digic 8 in late 2017. That will give us a better idea of how the new processor generation will handle 4K in the consumer world.

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2 hours ago, tugela said:

No, I don't think it has anything to do with withholding stuff. I have just noticed from their press release that the camera has a DV6 processor - that is a new one. It probably has a different encoder than the earlier DV5 processors, so hardware encoding for 4K will have different bit rates (as well as higher frame rates). There may not be any higher bit rates as a result. 

The high bit rates with DV5 were likely due to computational restraints to keep the processor in it's thermal envelope. A lower bit rate means more computation and implies that the DV6 is more thermally efficient, which is very good news for Canonites in the greater scheme of things. The implication of the new processor that people are perhaps not picking up on is that there will be a corresponding stills processor, the Digic 8, which will be the sibling of the DV6. It means that hardware encoding of 4K video might finally arrive in Canon consumer cameras (as well as the prosumer ones which currently are forced to use mjpeg as a codec).

It is actually the other way around. For the same compression algorithm, higher bit rates need more processing power than lower bit rates in both encoding and decoding. :)

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Sigh, another camera I can't afford. It would do everything I need it to do well, though. Wouldn't need to upgrade for a long time.

Pair it with something smaller (GH5, A7S) and your bases are all covered. 

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Man, the C200 looks to be the perfect camera for my needs. Raw to CFast for shooting indie narrative films with short takes that require heavy grading. MP4 for clients that need fast turnaround, long takes with small file sizes and no grading. And the touchscreen Dual Pixel AF is amazing. No need for external recorders or big V-lock batteries. All that for just $7500.

This is exactly what I wanted as an upgrade from my C100. I'm saving up for one starting today.

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1 hour ago, cpc said:

It is actually the other way around. For the same compression algorithm, higher bit rates need more processing power than lower bit rates in both encoding and decoding. :)

For decoding that might be true, but not encoding. Lower bit rates increase the number of decisions the algorithm needs to make, hence greater processing power is required. The least computationally intensive process is one where no decisions need to be made, in other words raw output.

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4 hours ago, tugela said:

If you are a professional, spending 8k on equipment needed to do your job is normal and reasonable. 

If you were a contractor in the construction business you would not skimp out on your truck for example. You would get the one that was tough enough and sturdy enough to get the job done without any problems. I am not sure why people in the imaging business think things are different for them.

If I were construction contractor  I m be more willing to do million dollar project then make some garage for someone, just saying

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1 hour ago, tugela said:

For decoding that might be true, but not encoding. Lower bit rates increase the number of decisions the algorithm needs to make, hence greater processing power is required. The least computationally intensive process is one where no decisions need to be made, in other words raw output.

C'mon even you, the resident Canon hater, has to be a little impressed with this camera... even just a wittle eensie weensie bit?

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13 hours ago, squig said:

Isn't it just awful. You couldn't shoot cats with it.

In my opinion you are completely missing the whole point of this blog and the enjoyment of shooting with the mirrorless cameras.

Yes for many it is a job and the C200 will be perfect as a workhorse for them.

But the great thing about affordable mirrorless cameras is that it gives everyone the opportunity to wrangle a £1000 toy so that it produces images that rival a £8000 workhorse.

Shoot something artistic and have fun.

And for work, jobs, clients, there's the C200.

I am not going to become like C5D, NewShooter, etc. and start aiming the site solely at pros.

I get that a lot of pros read EOSHD but they will forever be a minority in the overall audience of 'cat shooters' as you so dismissively put it.

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18 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

In my opinion you are completely missing the whole point of this blog and the enjoyment of shooting with the mirrorless cameras.

Yes for many it is a job and the C200 will be perfect as a workhorse for them.

But the great thing about affordable mirrorless cameras is that it gives everyone the opportunity to wrangle a £1000 toy so that it produces images that rival a £8000 workhorse.

Shoot something artistic and have fun.

And for work, jobs, clients, there's the C200.

I am not going to become like C5D, NewShooter, etc. and start aiming the site solely at pros.

I get that a lot of pros read EOSHD but they will forever be a minority in the overall audience of 'cat shooters' as you so dismissively put it.

Yeah this makes a lot of sense. I think the C200 looks like a market segment killer in the same way the original C300 and Alexa were. If I were starting a career as a shooter today I wouldn't look elsewhere. But it should be no surprise that you can get a good image for $8000. 

To that extent, I found the site's coverage of the FS5 sort of underwhelming. It might beat out an A7S but it also really ought to for the price. :/ 

Hidden gems like the BM 2.5K, various anamorphic adapters, and even the 5D RAW are much more interesting topics. There are plenty of websites devoted to vlogging and low end video already. 

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