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Andrew Reid

Sony A7S Mark 3 - What to expect

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4K/60p and internal 10-bit 4:2:2 for less than fast frame rates in such small form factor will be quite of a jump but feasible? No other chance to compete with the other contender, isn't it? ;-)

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Sony is competing with itself. The only thing missing is 4k/60p and 10bit so my guess is that's what we ll get. That's what everyone expects as well and if not delivered there will be little incentive to buy the s line. 

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We hope so. But then some other manufacturer will feel the need to put a competitive price to compete with the a7SIII if so ;-) I guess Sony will push the price much higher for.

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8 hours ago, Emanuel said:

4K/60p and internal 10-bit 4:2:2 for less than fast frame rates in such small form factor will be quite of a jump but feasible? No other chance to compete with the other contender, isn't it? ;-)

And some good video AF and the package is complete.

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On 11/14/2017 at 11:59 AM, IronFilm said:

I'm almost certain it won't get 10bit. Could be 50/50 as to if 4K 60fps happens.

As for a new sensor, if they go higher resolution to say 20 megapixels then that totally defeats the purpose of the a7S line up?

So they'll either stick with 12 megapixels, or will only get a very modest boost to say 16 megapixels (but doubtful, sampling is no longer so straightforward).

With the release of the a7iii with full sensor readout at 24p I am wondering what resolution the a7siii will have. Keeping the 12mp sensor might mean the picture quality will be worse than the a7iii, which would leave us with an odd choice.

I am hoping for 10 bit h265.

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28 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Not sure if they will include 10bit though. That will render the FS5 useless. (except maybe the RAW recorder, but its a addon)

FS5 is due for a Mark 2 update.. SOOC the latest Sonys (A9, A7R3, A73, A6500) already have a better 4K IQ.

but they are throwing in the RAW update and it can do 240fps in RAW (with external recorder). 

It still remains a pro camera, you're paying for ergonomics, XLRs, SDI, variable ND etc..

anyways i don't think they'll hold 10-bit on A7S3 as there wouldn't be much incentive left to buy one after this announcement (it appears A73 beats A7S2 in lowlight)

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26 minutes ago, Django said:

FS5 is due for a Mark 2 update.. SOOC the latest Sonys (A9, A7R3, A73, A6500) already have a better 4K IQ.

but they are throwing in the RAW update and it can do 240fps in RAW (with external recorder). 

It still remains a pro camera, you're paying for ergonomics, XLRs, SDI, variable ND etc..

anyways i don't think they'll hold 10-bit on A7S3 as there wouldn't be much incentive left to buy one after this announcement (it appears A73 beats A7S2 in lowlight)

Small form factor is much more of a problem than pricing range which can be adjusted any time... ;-)

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6 hours ago, Django said:

FS5 is due for a Mark 2 update.. SOOC the latest Sonys (A9, A7R3, A73, A6500) already have a better 4K IQ.

but they are throwing in the RAW update and it can do 240fps in RAW (with external recorder). 

It still remains a pro camera, you're paying for ergonomics, XLRs, SDI, variable ND etc..

anyways i don't think they'll hold 10-bit on A7S3 as there wouldn't be much incentive left to buy one after this announcement (it appears A73 beats A7S2 in lowlight)

There was a mark 2 update to the FS7 that did not change the sensor or sensor readout (same as FS5 and FS700!), so the newest mirrorless cameras beat both the FS7 and FS5 on sheer 4K resolution (I know FS7 does 10bit 422 4K internally). But...

The RAW (external) capability - e.g., 4K DCI 60P 422 10bit, 4K DCI 30P 12bit RAW, 10bit 4K DCI 120P burst - as you say, is what makes the FS cameras stand out, aside from "just" ergonomics. Nothing will beat that for a long while.

And the built-in continuously variable - and automatic - ND filter is a real creative tool for run and gun: clickless changes in exposure with no change in DOF or shutter speed while moving around, choice of DOF without regard for how bright the light is. No mirrorless cameras will probably ever get this.

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10 bits can contain more data, but if you output a crappy signal it won t be any better than 8bits.

Slog profiles are unusable IMO in 8 bits, you get banding on white walls even recorded externally, so I prefer cine1/pro

I m personally quite excited about the a7siii, I might pre-order one if they deliver what I need.

I hope that they can bump to 4.2.2 and the rate to 200Mbbps for 24/25/30 and 400Mbbps for 60fps, even if it s stay 8 bits I will be more than happy, it s what I got for my current a7rii + blackmagic video assist and the image is solid.

I m a bit concerned about the rolling shutter tho, the a7iii have a new sensor but the rolling shutter is a lot more present than the a9 so I hope we will get something nicer on the a7siii.

Video autofocus will be a big deal for me as well, its already usable on the a7rii, it should be fantastic on the a7siii.

 

I really wonder if they will use the a9 sensor for it like in the Venice or do a new 12mpx sensor.

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3 hours ago, thefactory said:

I have no evidence to back this up. I’m expecting  a few new models. A7sii and maybe a9s. We must also be due for a new fs5.

 

Here is why I do not think there will be a new FS5 soon: there was an FS5 firmware upgrade in October that added, among other things, the HLG Picture Profile. This gave the FS5 a feature that only the newest generation of Sony cameras (2018 models) have - the new camcorders like the AX700; the A7 iii, the A7r iii, etc. The FS7 ii has this too.

However, the A6500, the A7s ii, the A7r ii, the A7 ii did not get that upgrade, despite the fact that they are certainly capable of shooting in HLG. And, voila, we got the A7r ii and the A7 iii. 

So, which cameras did not get that HLG upgrade are the candidates for a new model, not the FS5. Note also that so far, no new Sony model does 4K 60P or 422 10bit internally. So, other than in autofocus (which, of course REAL videographers never use), the FS5 is up to date. Not to mention that externally it can do tricks no other camera can do except the FS7. And the price gap between the flagship mirrorless and the FS5 is shrinking.

If Atomos finally offers a compact external recorder with the capabilities of the Shogun Inferno - no need for even a screen - the FS5 would be by far the best alternative - 4K DCI 60P and even 120P in ProRes from 12bit RAW in a relatively small and light package. Unless you really need AF, of course.

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39 minutes ago, markr041 said:

If Atomos finally offers a compact external recorder with the capabilities of the Shogun Inferno

I’ve been hoping for this for years. It’s one of the reasons I never went for the fs5. Would be an awesome setup.

im thinking more along the lines of a refresh rather than a big update on the fs5. There is some shitty parts on the fs5 and maybe they update the mount like on the fs7. 

I’m thinking that if they do something like the a9s it would be priced similar to the fs5 to protect the pro video line. 

They might go 10 bit in the a7siii but I can’t see it having better features than the fs5 unless the price is raised. 

Im sick of waiting for it and hope that it lives up to the hype. 

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I am hopping for the following: 

SAME Camera as A7III with same sensor but: 

+ weather sealing and A7RIII screen/viewfinder (this is a given...) 
+ 4k60p
+ 1080-240p
+ 10 bit

Keeping the same A7III sensor is great: Makes it cheaper for Sony, gives us A7III-like image quality for stills (12mp not good enough for me) and most important allows for APSC video mode. Having 2 lenses in one is just great. Put a 20 or 24mm on that and you get a very wide + standard 35mm, and put a light 50mm prime and you get a useful standard 50mm + a portrait lens 75mm. 

This gives you 24/35/50/75mm covered with just 2 lenses. How amazing is that? 

For me, this would blow the GH5. Just make it Sony! 
Oh, and the only potential issue with my spec list would be Rolling Shutter with the 24mpx..... Hopefully they can sort that out. 

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The a7S line is low light/video centric, so it will likely still be 12 megapixels. It is a camera with specific applications in mind. If you want a hybrid, use the a7 line, and if you want a stills orientated camera, then use the a7R line.

I suspect that the a7S III will debut the next gen Sony processor which will enable more advanced video functions that is currently possible. So, 4K60p, higher bit depth, higher mbps, stuff like that. There will probably be a new sensor as well, using similar technology to what is in the a7 III, but at lower resolution to optimize ISO performance.

Further down later in this year and into 2019 (assuming the a7S III gets a new processor) we will see that processor being incorporated into the next iteration of the RX10/100 lines, as well as the a6700 crop sensor camera, to produce these higher end video capabilities in consumer orientated cameras.

Potentially lots of exciting stuff to come from Sony in a steady drumbeat of advancement.

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I am not actually that convinced there will be an A7siii in the near future. I mean if Sony cant give 1080 240, 4k60 or internal 10 bit due to overheating there actually doesnt seem to be any point. I would also have expected the A7siii to be released before the A7iii if it was coming.

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56 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

I am not actually that convinced there will be an A7siii in the near future. I mean if Sony cant give 1080 240, 4k60 or internal 10 bit due to overheating there actually doesnt seem to be any point. I would also have expected the A7siii to be released before the A7iii if it was coming.

Why ? A7III at cp+, a7sIII at NAB. Fully logical.

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25 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

Why ? A7III at cp+, a7sIII at NAB. Fully logical.

Well one of the reasons I say that is that Sony manufactures batches off the same assembly line. The A7iii will be its best selling camera so they will run a long batch. I dont think they will have the time to release the A7siii at NAB in early April.

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