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Andrew... you went with a RED?!


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Well, he said he wanted to make a film. These hybrids can only take you so far.

Hopefully, he'll update us on his process of building a rig. The Dragon is a fairly small camera, so it will be interesting to see how compact he can keep it.

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

https://twitter.com/EOSHD/status/1524714142275452930/photo/1

 

I would have bought a Komoto if it was close to the same price, but there are some crazy deals on the older stuff to be had.

Yeah, the Komodo is an amazing little camera. But like you said, there are some crazy deals out there. I often look to see how much the original Scarlet or Raven is going for.

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3 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Lomo anamorphic on a Red Dragon. Well, that´s a Tarkovksian Hollywood image. Cannot wait. Comparison with the GH6 woud be a great article to enjoy on a Sunday morning with coffee, and scrambled eggs with grilled tomatoes. 🙂

I love how you tell us what you're going to eat when you read articles. It's as if a certain food goes well with a certain camera... with fava beans and a nice chianti. 

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I saw that tweet back when Andrew posted it, bravo on entering into a whole new world! 

Not sure if it is a path I'd personally take though (but then again, I don't know how much of a steal he got it for?? And a certain point you just can't say no!). 

As I keep an eye on RED prices now and then. 
 

RED ONEs have for a while now been ultra affordable, but they're such extremely heavy beasts! (and suck up power & media) That's why all those years ago I went with a Sony PMW-F3 instead, as my personal experiences with RED ONE meant I didn't want one myself. 

RED Scarlet MX have finally got to the point they're ultra cheap too, but they're a bit too crippled vs an Epic. Plus the MX sensor is so old. (who wants to go back to always shooting at 800 ISO? And never going higher. Not me. And arguably you should even still shoot 320 ISO, if you want a cleaner image, say if you doing green screen)

Thus I feel you have to look at the bare minimum of an DSMC1 Epic Dragon (or newer)

But you could buy a brand new Sony FX6 / Canon C70 for that price! Or an URSA Mini 12K.

Or if looking at secondhand, a Sony F55 or original ALEXA. Or a Panasonic Varicam LT / Canon C300 mk3 is also in the same ballpark. 

And if you start looking at the more recent REDs than that (DSMC2 bodies), you're then reaching into ballpark price territory for an AMIRA, or Sony FX9, or Canon C500mk2.

Is a personal preference thing, but I'd happily take any of those other alternatives instead. 

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According to his tweet, he's going for that older Red aesthetic... so sure there are alternatives unless you are going for what he said he wanted. That's like @PannySVHS wanting eggs and tomatoes and you saying he could have a muffin.

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16 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Lomo anamorphic on a Red Dragon. Well, that´s a Tarkovksian Hollywood image. Cannot wait. Comparison with the GH6 woud be a great article to enjoy on a Sunday morning with coffee, and scrambled eggs with grilled tomatoes. 🙂

Watched Mirror for the first time this past weekend. Such an amazing piece of cinematic poetry.

And even further off topic:

Homegrown Tomatoes

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On 5/20/2022 at 2:41 AM, webrunner5 said:

I would have bought a Komoto if it was close to the same price, but there are some crazy deals on the older stuff to be had.

Well spotted...  

The Komodo sure is an interesting piece of tech, especially so given the top screen and ability to mod it with a medium-format style loupe and get away with a cinema camera without needing an external monitor.

....and the image from the Komodo...  well, not must else to be said really.

On 5/20/2022 at 4:08 AM, mercer said:

Well, he said he wanted to make a film. These hybrids can only take you so far.

Hopefully, he'll update us on his process of building a rig. The Dragon is a fairly small camera, so it will be interesting to see how compact he can keep it.

Rigs are so interesting as they're a real glimpse into the logic and workflow someone is using.  and they're especially difficult to do well when you're going with a small setup, rather than fully-featured but heavy.

On 5/20/2022 at 6:24 AM, PannySVHS said:

Lomo anamorphic on a Red Dragon. Well, that´s a Tarkovksian Hollywood image. Cannot wait. Comparison with the GH6 woud be a great article to enjoy on a Sunday morning with coffee, and scrambled eggs with grilled tomatoes. 🙂

My pick would be just coffee, and in a double-walled cup to keep it hot longer.  The problem with reading and eating/drinking is that the food gets cold!

23 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I saw that tweet back when Andrew posted it, bravo on entering into a whole new world! 

Not sure if it is a path I'd personally take though (but then again, I don't know how much of a steal he got it for?? And a certain point you just can't say no!). 

As I keep an eye on RED prices now and then. 
 

RED ONEs have for a while now been ultra affordable, but they're such extremely heavy beasts! (and suck up power & media) That's why all those years ago I went with a Sony PMW-F3 instead, as my personal experiences with RED ONE meant I didn't want one myself. 

RED Scarlet MX have finally got to the point they're ultra cheap too, but they're a bit too crippled vs an Epic. Plus the MX sensor is so old. (who wants to go back to always shooting at 800 ISO? And never going higher. Not me. And arguably you should even still shoot 320 ISO, if you want a cleaner image, say if you doing green screen)

Thus I feel you have to look at the bare minimum of an DSMC1 Epic Dragon (or newer)

But you could buy a brand new Sony FX6 / Canon C70 for that price! Or an URSA Mini 12K.

Or if looking at secondhand, a Sony F55 or original ALEXA. Or a Panasonic Varicam LT / Canon C300 mk3 is also in the same ballpark. 

And if you start looking at the more recent REDs than that (DSMC2 bodies), you're then reaching into ballpark price territory for an AMIRA, or Sony FX9, or Canon C500mk2.

Is a personal preference thing, but I'd happily take any of those other alternatives instead. 

Yeah, I've been watching Caleb Pikes adventures with those older cinema cameras and been really surprised about how involved and demanding the accessories are - they're really entire ecosystems in a way that just isn't the case with DSLR/MILC cameras.

The image though, is worth it if you can source the equipment and work around the limitations.

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If he's serious about making a film then it makes absolute sense. I love mirrorless for practical reasons but for that cinematic aesthetic nothing really beats ARRI, RED, VENICE & VARICAM paired with cine glass imo. There is a reason why they are standards in big productions and not an A7S3, R5C, GH5 etc.

Hopefully he will share with us what pushed him in that direction!

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2 hours ago, Django said:

If he's serious about making a film then it makes absolute sense. I love mirrorless for practical reasons but for that cinematic aesthetic nothing really beats ARRI, RED, VENICE & VARICAM paired with cine glass imo. There is a reason why they are standards in big productions and not an A7S3, R5C, GH5 etc.

Hopefully he will share with us what pushed him in that direction!

I think it's more about ergonomics than the image tbh.

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1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

I think it's more about ergonomics than the image tbh.

I disagree. In between CS, DR, codecs and specific IQ related features there is a lot to gain by going with one of these top tier cine cams. I mean look at all the cool IQ features in the Dragon-X including various OLPFs and highlight roll off options:

 

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Decided to get a proper RAW cine camera. It was between RED and Blackmagic. The RED seems to have more mojo, especially the older EPIC and Scarlet. I am also trying a RAVEN out.

The older REDs are not expensive now. Paid £1790 for an EPIC-X, with 5K 120fps RAW.

But when building it out, that's when the costs start rising.

But for under $3500 you can definitely get a good kit.

It's about the dynamic range and RED raw for me. The colour science is also very nice.

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4 hours ago, Django said:

If he's serious about making a film then it makes absolute sense. I love mirrorless for practical reasons but for that cinematic aesthetic nothing really beats ARRI, RED, VENICE & VARICAM paired with cine glass imo. There is a reason why they are standards in big productions and not an A7S3, R5C, GH5 etc.

Hopefully he will share with us what pushed him in that direction!

Big productions don't use mirrorless hybrids for a multitude of reasons. Why would you if you have the budget to use any camera that you want?

10 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Decided to get a proper RAW cine camera. It was between RED and Blackmagic. The RED seems to have more mojo, especially the older EPIC and Scarlet. I am also trying a RAVEN out.

The older REDs are not expensive now. Paid £1790 for an EPIC-X, with 5K 120fps RAW.

But when building it out, that's when the costs start rising.

But for under $3500 you can definitely get a good kit.

It's about the dynamic range and RED raw for me. The colour science is also very nice.

Keep us updated on your findings, thoughts, etc. I'd be interested in video comparisons, etc.!

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