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Disappointing Panasonic GH5 Mark II specs leak in Japan – Where is the GH6?


Andrew Reid
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What are the specs on the current GH5 sensor?  

I'm wondering if they went all-out and implemented everything the sensor could do, would it give any new modes etc, or does the current GH5 utilise the sensor completely?

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Just now, Andrew Reid said:

Agree 100%

Having a flexible road map is one thing, nobody wants to bring out cameras that people won't buy if demand suddenly shifts or a GH6 is no longer there it's at...

But making the intentions clear is whey they fail completely, everything is either hidden under NDAs or just complete silence.

Is it any wonder customers are confused?

It's so self sabotaging, because by doing this to your customers pretty much ensures that they're never going to buy your products again. 

I love my GH5. I love the XLR adapter. It is such a compact set up. I use it for everything from filming pro wrestling to interviews. I don't have to build up a rig unless I want to... just throw a lens on, connect the XLR adapter and you can get excellent results. No fuss. 

I WANT to stay. Give me a reason to! Can't lead the pack with specs now that full frame has caught up? Fine! Innovate in other ways! What's stopping you from putting a GH5 into a GX85 body? I'd buy two, along with a GH6! Nothing would delight me more than even smaller, lighter cameras! I'd carry one with me pretty much at all times! 

And I don't believe this notion that you can't sell a kick ass GH6 for less than a S5 because the truth is there's a segment of the full frame market that won't consider a M43 camera no matter what the specs are. Go for broke, fuck it! Or just give people what they want: I mean just adding phase detect AF alone to decent bumps in specs would sell a bunch of new M43 cameras! 

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If they’ve got a GH6 coming, they’ve got to be crystal clear about that. It’s coming next year, will have a brand new sensor, and will be priced substantially above the GH5 mk2. Otherwise people will draw the obvious conclusion: Panasonic’s pretty much done with m4/3 and this warmed over offering exists solely to milk a few more dollars out of their existing customers.

The thing I don’t get is the strategy here. Two short years ago m4/3 users were 100% of Panasonic’s customer base; now, they’ve effectively abandoned them. Most people looking for a 135 system will choose a less fickle partner to invest their money in. 

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A GH6 with Pro Res, a GH5s-style sensor---with Panasonic proprietary Speed booster for L-mount lenses, that great stabilization, and DPAF---BIG success IMHO.

These features would go a long way to eliminating the GH5's double Achilles heel: AF and noise.
I LOVED my GH5s....but no stabilization took its toll---but what a great camera with a beautiful image. Dare I say Panasonic has very much caught up with Canon vis a vis color? I love the colors out of the S5---they have an embarrassment of riches for the video shooter---but it all needs to be crowned with Pro Res and DPAF---the Pro Res would draw a lot of both Canon and Sony shooters.

My 2¢
Always inciteful and provocative. That's the reason for the staying power of EOSHD.



 

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I’ve said this before multiple times and will repeat it again and that is, like several others above, I wish camera companies would be a bit more up front about what is coming and when.

When they don’t, I imagine someone in a black & white boardroom meeting somewhere is whispering in the bosses ear, “let’s not tell them anything and build the mystery for them”.

We are not children that need to wait until Christmas morning to see what’s under the tree.

As a hybrid user (approx 90% of my work these days is hybrid, building steadily over the last 15 years from my roots as a pure photographer) and 4/3 never cut it for me in that regard.

Fuji APSC had been my sweet spot for the last 10 before going FF with L Mount at the end of last year.

I would seriously consider a GH6, or any 4/3 camera providing it ticks the boxes I need.

The Olympus OMD EM1iii for video does in every regard except to 4K 60p.

The current GH5 does in every regard except no PDAF.

Both just shy of my needs.

Other than the new FP-L, no L Mount camera has phase, yet I recently bought into it. Why?

Because there is so much other good stuff with it but I wish wish wish it had PDAF.

Summary: If Panny do not release a GH6, 4/3 doesn’t die. It simply continues to die. It’s been doing that for some while now, but then so have total sales of all cameras regardless of sensor size.

if they don’t bring out an absolute banger of a GH6, they need phase on every new L Mount camera going forward or Panasonic especially amongst the alliance, will also die.

Leica should be fine for other reasons.

Sigma also because they are 99% lenses.

But Pannyboy needs more than the Pony of Hope for even medium term survival.

A final note. My S1H is the best camera I have ever owned bar none. It’s fkn fantastic in every regard except tracking AF and if it can give me 3 years of service beyond 2021, it will be enough for me, but I fear for even their medium term stay in the camera business.

I also have the S5 but it’s not even slightly close how much better the S1H is in almost every regard.

However, if Panny bring out a PDAF GH6 by Spring 2022, I would buy one for my pure video needs I am pretty sure.

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9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

To be in the loop you have to sign the NDA. I find it intolerable as a journalist to have to sign NDAs in order to get privileged info. It is the complete opposite of journalism.

Nice and sort of pleasure to be distinctively brave.

It could be that Panasonic tries to sell last part of residual GH5 components.

It could be logical that expected GH6 specs will be bring up in a different body as a Komodo competitor, also as added supported  factor for pretty higher price. Now they have experience with BG1, or what is proper name.

If it is the case, mysterious teasing has to be expected at not so distant future, sort of EVA1 prehistory or GH5s announcing.

Briefly going throw recent posts, I noticed (but maybe I'm wrong) that there's no participating activity from that nice guy that promote GH5s with short movie - so hope that maybe he is at DNA task testing something knew, because he was serious, successful and loyal promoter previously. Although if I remember he also mentioned better prospects of devotion to music making.

I yet think that at least one camera maker sooner or later will certainly gather all virtues of M43 mature knowledge together from all sides, as also profitably utilize all that great lenses. Who it will be - it is uncertain.

For indie movie making, M43 will for some time more rest comparatively superior effective as the fast submarine under sluggish aircraft carriers.

Market of course chase for profit though with bigger-numbers universal mantra for masses.

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Wow, this doesn't really follow the "blockbuster" upgrades the GH series is known for.  Who would buy this when you can get a GH5 for very little money? There's barely a difference. Seems bizarre. 

Although the A7S3 is more expensive, it has amazing 4k120fps in full frame with stunning low light and great DR.

They have to make a compelling offer at half the price of the A7S3, and this isn't even close. 

 

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They only needed one thing to make the GH5 II actually interesting....PDAF....but they couldn't even do that. The GH5II with PDAF would have restored my faith in Panasonic and I would have felt better about a potential S5 II release with better AF but still no sign of PDAF. 

I feel like Panasonic is just trying to get rid of their old GH5 components prior to shutting down the production line for M4/3. I just don't see how Panasonic could possibly bring a GH6 to market when their FF S5 is only $1700.00.

No matter how many features you crammed into a GH6 body, it still wouldn't be able to compete with the plethora of features in the A7SIII, the R5, or the coming R1....yet it would be close to their price point. And if Panasonic really does have a written agreement with Sony to not use anything but DFD...the GH6 would be DOA with DFD combined with a $3000 price point.

The other irony of the M4/3 conundrum is that many of us now have a bag full of manual lenses since the GH5's AF was unusable...so even if they did release a M4/3 camera with PDAF, how many of us would be prepared to go back and buy more lenses for a camera that is a dying breed? To me the Voigtlander lenses have no equal when it comes to their particular look and they are still the main thing I miss about the move to the S5; there's simply no way I would go back to M4/3 and start buying new lenses on top of buying a $3000+ body with a 2x crop after buying the S5.

Panasonic is without a doubt my favorite camera maker for video...but I've said it before and I'll say it again.....it really feels like they will exit the camera business soon. Canon and Sony are releasing incredibly advanced products at a breakneck pace with all of the right boxes checked (color science, features, menu structure, AF, etc.), and all Panasonic has managed to do is dig into the parts bin and come up with a GH5II.

If Panasonic had AF that was even close to Canon's I would probably have two S5 bodies and L mount lenses right now.....instead I'm reading about a rehashed GH5II and thinking I'm glad I'm not still sitting here waiting for a GH6.

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@newfoundmass would also love  the goodies of a GH5 in a GX85 body. That would be a standout move. Also, like Andrew stated, cut 90 percent of the other cams and focus on the GX, GH and Lumix S cameras. The Panny lineup has been plastered with too many and redundant releases. The GH5II leaked specs list is awful to read. So the standout feature would be 4k60p 10bit 420. Well, I got that in my S1 with a larger sensor area. @MrSMW what makes your S1H so much more exiting than your S5? Hopefully your comment won´t make me want to update to a S1H.:)

Anyway, GH5ii with same image sensor should have full sensor opengate 10bit 24p to 60p 422, 444 HD up to 60p, Prores options, perfect HD for up to 240p, 10bit 422 of course. SDI, XLR, internal NDs, full VLog- and Gamut. 2000 USD. Then it would be a tasty treat. GH6 would be allowed to top that. Other than that a GH5II would be a rather uninspiring affair. And better keep the S16 mode!

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18 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

As it seems more and more likely this is real, I'm just filled with disappointment. I've got a hard decision to make soon: do I run my M43 kit until I have to switch systems or do I sell my kit now while it still has decent monetary value that I can put towards a new system? And what system do I go with? Ugh. 

My thoughts too. Either Sony or Panasonic L (S5 or S1) for me. I need  2 cameras from the same system which makes Sony very expensive. The A7iii is fine as a B cam and for photos but the "good" video cameras like the A7Siii, FX3 and A1 are very expensive (especially when you factor in lenses, cards etc). But my tired eyes like the AF! But my wallet and ears like the fact that I could use my XLR adaptor on the S line Pannys🤔

If the A7Siii cost 3000€ I'd buy it but 3900€ is a lot nevermind 4500€ for an FX3!

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13 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

As it seems more and more likely this is real, I'm just filled with disappointment. I've got a hard decision to make soon: do I run my M43 kit until I have to switch systems or do I sell my kit now while it still has decent monetary value that I can put towards a new system? And what system do I go with? Ugh. 

If this is your quandary I would suggest selling what you have and going with Fujifilm---specifically, the XT-4, looking forward to the X-H2---the X-H1 being best feeling and handling hybrid camera I've ever owned.
The hybrid features of the X-T4 are second to none, and the film simulations give you the shortest distance between shooting and editing great looking footage I know of. APS-C is the ideal compromise between full frame and MFT, and the video usage features of the X-T4 are the very best---better than any other maker of hybrid cameras--- more than all the others they help you get the shot and get it right. Other companies do individual things better, ie, Panasonic with its IBIS, but Fuji does everything at very high levels of excellence---and it's only going to get better. The icing on the cake: no better company for the consumer than Fuji.

my 2¢

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If the rumors are true and its as disappointing as everyone seems to already know that it will be, I wouldn't be surprised if chip shortages are partly to blame. Nvidia can't make GPUs, Sony won't meet demand for PS5's until 2023... it's unsurprising that Panasonic is reusing parts from the GH5. Maybe it's either that or a paper launch.

Though in the absence of chip-related new features, an internal ND could have been be a welcome addition, so who knows what's going on. Ultimately with the prices of the S5 and XT3 so low, I don't think there is anything with a price >$1k that a M43 hybrid would tempt me with and Panasonic probably knows that.

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2 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

what makes your S1H so much more exiting than your S5? Hopefully your comment won´t make me want to update to a S1H

Tricky to define but the summary would be as follows...

Since moving from full frame Nikon D3s 10 years ago, I was all about compact and lightweight kit.

For the last couple of years, hybrid in a single body type.

I was put off anything S1 flavored for the last year or so due to I will admit, YouTube content creators repeated mantra of, “they are so massive and weigh a ton”. I swallowed that. Until I got one.

My ‘dream’ camera is a Leica SL2 for photo and a SL2-S for video, paired up to fulfill my hybrid needs.

Why? The caché, the legend, all that shit.

But then there is the reality...

Could I justify the cost? Nope, not really.

Is the lack of a tilt screen an issue? Actually, stop kidding yourself, yes it is.

Is the S1R a better all round proposition, badge aside, over an SL2? Probably yes.

Do I really really really need 47mp or for 99% of my needs, isn’t 24mp better and then there is the tripod hi res mode for uber-detailed landscape shots so...

OK, so S1, S1H or S5 then.

I like and almost love the S5 but it falls short in 2 areas principally and these are; the flip out screen (the S1H’s is perfection) and once you have used the EVF on the S1H, the S5’s is really like stepping back in time.

The S1’s on off switch is in the wrong place and the top screen is like a 1990’s digital watch.

The S1H just feels right in the hand and doesn’t just feel like the premium product that it is, but has that ‘specialness’ about it that some stuff just has and some stuff just does not.

It is now without question my A camera for both stills and video and it’s only...and I mean ONLY flaw (in my opinion) is the less than stellar tracking AF.

Could be a bit cheaper maybe, but then it’s a premium item so IMO, worth it. 

My S5 is now very much my B cam. Still hybrid, but not my primary camera.

Oh and just to conclude on the whole size and weight thing...the IBIS is superb, the rear screen is superb and for my needs does not need; a cage or additional grip, a monitor or a gimbal and when paired with Sigma’s new 28-70mm f2.8...well ha, it’s smaller and lighter than anything with bits added to it.

Apologies for the GH5.5 digress, but it’s kind of related as the S1H is my ‘GH6’. 

Apologies if you now want an S1H but it’s just fucking superb.

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Cut this from the article as it was a bit waffly...

The gap between the GH5 and GH6 is the longest ever in the series.

If we look at the launch cycle so far, the GH1 and GH2 came out in quick succession earlier last decade (yes that long ago!) and by the end of 2012 we had the GH3! What started as a consumer and enthusiast camera was going mainstream pro as well. After that it wasn't very long to wait for the 4K GH4 which arrived just 2 years later in May 2014.

Since then we have only seen the GH5 in addition, but it was definitely worth waiting 3 years for. A lot of new cutting edge stuff before Sony like a 10bit codec and comprehensive anamorphic mode. A new sensor, new EVF, new body design - basically everything new plus IBIS. The problem is that even in the gap between 2014 and 2017 quite a lot of ground was lost to competitors in terms of the core technologies. I know it doesn't matter now, but the Samsung NX1 in late 2014 was groundbreaking in many ways for video shooters and stole the limelight away from the GH4 on specs and image quality. The Sony A7S II in 2015 took the fight to the Panasonic GH4 in a big way on the shop floor. Even Fuji decided to get serious about video around the same time. The X-T2/3/4 have I am sure gobbled up a few of Panasonic's sales on the stills and video side.

I'll always be a fan of what Panasonic have done for filmmakers, especially those on a budget, with the GH series. I just sense trouble ahead for Panasonic if they do not sort our their marketing and product strategy.

My blog has been constantly supportive and open to Panasonic but they have not taken advantage of it. I am fed up of the NDAs and coordinated press releases. I am not going to play this game for another 10 years!

I hope that the GH5 Mark II leak is not the whole story but who knows? There may be good reasons for a hardware revision like USB charging, a new battery, perhaps 4K/60p 10bit and of course old parts going EOL at suppliers, but it is hard to tell from the incomplete specs what they are thinking at all.

Having a lukewarm GH5 Mark II specs sheet leak is a PR disaster.

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3 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I just sense trouble ahead for Panasonic if they do not sort our their marketing and product strategy

Yup. This is and has been my concern as a user.

It’s almost as if owners/users are in the know in regard to the capability of the kit, but the rest of the world just mostly poo poos the tracking AF.

And quite right in regard to the latter, but their whole marketing department and advertising etc just seems to lack mojo.

But then again, maybe I like the fact that they are an underdog...

Their customer service department sucks balls based on my dealings with them, UK and France. Utter contempt for their customers. I almost sold the lot a few months back on sheer point of principle.

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1 hour ago, Thpriest said:

My thoughts too. Either Sony or Panasonic L (S5 or S1) for me. I need  2 cameras from the same system which makes Sony very expensive. The A7iii is fine as a B cam and for photos but the "good" video cameras like the A7Siii, FX3 and A1 are very expensive (especially when you factor in lenses, cards etc). But my tired eyes like the AF! But my wallet and ears like the fact that I could use my XLR adaptor on the S line Pannys🤔

If the A7Siii cost 3000€ I'd buy it but 3900€ is a lot nevermind 4500€ for an FX3!

It'd be very difficult for me to go with Panasonic again. I'm very skeptical about the L-mount alliance's long term viability, and frankly I'm not too eager to go with Panasonic again just out of principle, even though their cameras are my ideal tool. 

I was really hoping to at least wait it out until Fuji finally nailed a video focused camera that didn't overheat and had no record limits. So if I do something this year it seems like Sony is the likely destination, and that bums me out because I don't get the same joy out of using Sony cameras as I do pretty much every other company. 

Panasonic never should've gone full frame. It was too late into the game, people had already chosen their horse. And now they're on the verge of abandoning one of the most loyal customer bases in the camera business. 

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