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Canon EOS R5 8K monster official topic


Andrew Reid
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Canon is pushing "full sensor with" and "no cropping" but they are being very careful to not say "HOW" they are doing this. I'm expecting gobbs of line skipping and pixel binning in 4k. The fact that this camera has no cooling fan is also HIGHLY suspicious. It wouldn't surprise me if the 8k limit was no more than 30 seconds long per clip. Even line skipped 4k will not be longer 30 min. Many people expect this to be the 8k version of the S1H. But, the S1H is fan cooled, has 6k-4k-1080 full pixel readout, no recording limits and no overheating problems and is designed to be as 100% reliable and is built like a true camcorder. The R5 will be nothing like this because its not designed to be and it can't be in this form factor.

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14 hours ago, mechanicalEYE said:

Not so sure... photographers are all over Facebook expressing feelings of being left out with the video-centric spec's being promoted so heavily first. Photography wise there are other options to consider at any price point. You go too high, and you lose the crowd who are already happy with the glass they own. To convert buyers onto RF lenses that are pretty expensive in comparison to EF versions, you'd have to consider that it would cost over 10K once you were to add a lens kit to the 4999 that you estimate. That cost opens buyers up-to many options, especially if you're talking body only. 5D price's make more sense, and that would bring more shooters back to Canon.  I have the R and the RF trinity set, but if the R wouldn't have hit huge discounts on sale I cant say that I would have invested in the R.

They'll complain, but they'll still buy if they've stuck with Canon this long. From my experience the people leaving Canon have primarily been video shooters, or at least those that lean on the video side more than photography side. I don't see a lot of weddings photographers using Sony, for example. 

They're going after the market that is most vulnerable to leaving Canon / have left Canon but can be won back. Most of those folks didn't leave because of Canon's hefty price tags, they left because of how far behind they fell. 

And while I'm skeptical over whether it's a better camera, the R5 being roughly $500-1000 more than the S1H doesn't seem unreasonable if you're looking to spend that much anyway. 

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34 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Canon is pushing "full sensor with" and "no cropping" but they are being very careful to not say "HOW" they are doing this. I'm expecting gobbs of line skipping and pixel binning in 4k. The fact that this camera has no cooling fan is also HIGHLY suspicious. It wouldn't surprise me if the 8k limit was no more than 30 seconds long per clip. Even line skipped 4k will not be longer 30 min. Many people expect this to be the 8k version of the S1H. But, the S1H is fan cooled, has 6k-4k-1080 full pixel readout, no recording limits and no overheating problems and is designed to be as 100% reliable and is built like a true camcorder. The R5 will be nothing like this because its not designed to be and it can't be in this form factor.

1DX iii can subsample 5.5k 60 fps to 4k 60fps for 30 min, so it looks plausible to do 8k 30fps to 4k 30fps that is around the same data..... now higher than 30fps not so sure...

Seeing the c500 ii doing 5.9k RAW 60fps with a fan I was doubtful that the 1Dx in a fully weather sealed body could do the same at 5.5k and here I’m using it daily with no issue....

Bottomline up to 30fps absolutely doable, rolling shutter will be an issue but so is on the SH1

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There are business that produce content that are in the market for $13K cinema cameras with All the onset bells and whistle that make sense in that environment.

Then there are a whole bunch (way more in my opinion) of aspiring photo/video content creators and small one-man-band companies doing work for smaller clients that demand a mix of deliverables.

These are the people that are doing work for travel agencies and local business that prefer the form factor of a R5 over a C300 or even a C100 and don’t have the weight of “industry standards practice” of this is how it’s done.

The later want the R5. The former don’t. They are separate markets for the most part.

The problem lies, and I’m completely speculating here, in the separate imaging departments at the cameras companies. The cinema division was the old world and should get the better specs and image and that the consumer electronics segment should be get hand-me-downs. That the segments overlapped when they really don’t and there is just a tiny grey area.

People know if they need a C300 or not. They know the difference. A C300 isn’t anything like  a R5. They are separate flagship products in two different markets.

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44 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

They'll complain, but they'll still buy if they've stuck with Canon this long. From my experience the people leaving Canon have primarily been video shooters, or at least those that lean on the video side more than photography side. I don't see a lot of weddings photographers using Sony, for example. 

They're going after the market that is most vulnerable to leaving Canon / have left Canon but can be won back. Most of those folks didn't leave because of Canon's hefty price tags, they left because of how far behind they fell. 

And while I'm skeptical over whether it's a better camera, the R5 being roughly $500-1000 more than the S1H doesn't seem unreasonable if you're workbook that much anyway. 

Yes, I agree.  A good number of those "photographers" will still buy especially if they have already invested in the system ( lenses ).  Most of them seemed irritated (  basically pouting ) that Canon's focus during the announcement was video specific. As for video shooters,  Im not so sure those that left would comeback for the R5, if the cost is over 500.00 more than the S1H. A few of the video shooters here are waiting to hear what the R6 brings. Over heating, record time limitations may still be the thing that keeps competition in the game.

Never said former Canon users left because of cost. It's well known that most left because Canon fell behind spec wise. My mention of cost is that I believe Canon wants to sell RF lenses as well. Many R users are still using adapters with EF lenses and have not ran out and invested in RF glass yet. Pricing here is an important piece of this.

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2 hours ago, Cliff Totten said:

Funny question. Too early to say but its fun to guess.....what are the odds of this thing getting Netflix approval like the S1H did?

Image quality, I bet it will be good enough for Netflix, but I suspect that approval will not happen. If there is a recording time limit that would hurt its chances. Also it might not write all the metadata that Netflix requires--I haven't heard anything about timecode support for example. That might be something Canon wants to reserve for the C line.

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23 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Image quality, I bet it will be good enough for Netflix, but I suspect that approval will not happen. If there is ae recording time limit that would hurt its chances. Also it might not write all the metadata that Netflix requires--I haven't heard anything about timecode support for example. That might be something Canon wants to reserve for the C line.

One of the key requirement for Netflix that no canon dslr will fulfill is time code input..... C200 does not have it and so is not on the list.

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6 hours ago, mechanicalEYE said:

Im not so sure those that left would comeback for the R5, if the cost is over 500.00 more than the S1H. 

I think a lot of those folks long for the old Canon days. It has been my experience that those are among the most interested parties when it comes to Canon releases. They'll always have a soft spot in their hearts for Canon and I think a good number have been looking for a reason to go back. 

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2012 Canon - "here, have this soft 1080p"

2013 Canon - "here, have even worse soft 1080p"

2014 Canon - "here, have some moire"

2015 Canon - "here, we've got some 1080p"

2016 Canon - "the 1080p is now more expensive"

2017 Canon - "4K has arrived. It is MJPEG with a huge crop"

2018 Canon - "the 4K still has a huge crop"

2019 Canon - "I don't think we will ever give you proper 4K"

2020 Canon - "Here, have this 8K full frame RAW and 4K 120fps 10bit H.265"

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6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

2012 Canon - "here, have this soft 1080p"

2013 Canon - "here, have even worse soft 1080p"

2014 Canon - "here, have some moire"

2015 Canon - "here, we've got some 1080p"

2016 Canon - "the 1080p is now more expensive"

2017 Canon - "4K has arrived. It is MJPEG with a huge crop"

2018 Canon - "the 4K still has a huge crop"

2019 Canon - "I don't think we will ever give you proper 4K"

2020 Canon - "Here, have this 8K full frame RAW and 4K 120fps 10bit H.265"

I think this is what makes me very suspicious! Either they have genuinely turned a corner cos the financials are getting very bad, or there will be some nasty surprises real-world VS this spec sheet...

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48 minutes ago, jgharding said:

I think this is what makes me very suspicious! Either they have genuinely turned a corner cos the financials are getting very bad, or there will be some nasty surprises real-world VS this spec sheet...

You could do also another list for Canon DSLR regarding video:

- First having FullHD DSLR

- First having 4k DSLR

- First having a usable video AF

- First having 4k 60p DSLR

- First having ND filter adapter 

- First having FF RAW DSLR

- First having 8K DSLR

- First having FF 4k 120 DSLR

But I agree they never really went all in for video features until the 1Dx III.... and pricing was always all over the place.

I think this year is a big turnaround with C500 II, C300 III, 1Dx III that they really did not cripple or try to protect things so I have less of a problem guessing that R5 will not be intentionally crippled. It will have limitation but mostly due to HW than intentional.

.

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1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

I think this year is a big turnaround with C500 II, C300 III, 1Dx III that they really did not cripple or try to protect things so I have less of a problem guessing that R5 will not be intentionally crippled. It will have limitation but mostly due to HW than intentional.

Agree with you. Just looking at the c300 MkIII, which is even more interesting in my opinion than its big brother c500 mkII, with the no cropped high framerates, the incredible dual gain output, new sensor technolgy... 

Aside from the difference in sensor size and resolution, c300 is not crippled in any way, so much that on c500 users FB groups it makes people kind of upset. 

Canon made up their mind in 2020.

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20 hours ago, Simon Young said:

Are you serious? Public service in my country produces a vast array of content, spanning from fiction to news reporting and documentaries.

How does that fit into you? You're not producing that content anyways.

You claim that people around you are doing great looking content with cameras I don't care about. So what? I'm not gonna buy a GH5 because some ENG dude is using it somewhere. I read all your posts and I don't understand what you are arguing about. Just yelling shit.

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