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BTM_Pix

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K

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i wonder how things would go by sticking a medium format lens on the front with that speed booster thats been talked about. that might prove interesting. from what i have seen medium format lenses seem to have held their value better than 35mm stuff. So maybe there might not be the same amount of bargain basement gems sitting around out there. If the 6k takes off

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12 hours ago, kye said:

I agree, and this is why I posted these videos...   

People on here seem to be perpetually confused:

  • Canon has terrible everything, how are they still selling anything, they can't be selling anything, they're definitely not selling anything, they're doomed
  • The future of cinema is FF
  • P6K has EF mount, why on earth would they do that, it doesn't work for me and my preferences
  • That Canon shooter is now interested in P6K - why didn't they love the P4K with it's MFT mount and its tiny MFT sensor

Maybe the thing that is missing from the conversation is that Canon sells plenty of cameras, there are plenty of people with EF lens collections, and the EF mount was a good commercial decision to attract customers from a different segment of the market.

What's surprising to me that it's surprising to anyone else.

Well their own higher end cameras have EF mount of course so there is the gateway drug/B camera aspect to it as well.

Also, as has been seen with the LS300, this is the sort of reaction that you get from a lot of people when explaining that you can have a larger sensor sat behind an MFT mount.

Dog-nose1.jpg.df0a43371afdc8768f09b0851ba25917.jpg

The connection between lens mount and sensor size is so fixed in so many minds that it would actually present a bit of a challenge to market it.

If you've only got EF mount lenses (and I've actually got more of those than MFT ones) and never intend to put PL lenses on it or need the option of smaller MFT lenses then its likely not worth a second thought.

BM have far more research data than any of us about what people want in a camera and it might well be that the unbreakable link in a lot of people's minds between mount and sensor isn't a battle worth having for them. I'd be curious to know whether JVC would do it again either as, even though for the people that did buy it that aspect of it was genius, it likely put off an equal or more number who didn't get it or need it.

If the Pocket6K had an MFT mount, did a simple 90% crop when you put on an MFT lens (and it can auto detect this) and did 100% otherwise then I doubt it would've raised nearly as much debate though.

Which is why we will see exactly that in the version they release at NAB ;)

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1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

The connection between lens mount and sensor size is so fixed in so many minds that it would actually present a bit of a challenge to market it.

I think from both a marketing and engineering perspective it’s hard to add a mount where ZERO native lenses will work without a crop. Your auto crop idea is cool though.

one additional solution is to include a BM designed M43 to EF adapter. Like have it already mounted on the camera, but could easily be removed.

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You're right about the link between sensor size and the mount, and a lot of people saw the LS3000 mount situation as a bit of a hack, or a 'that'll do' situation, rather than the clever pragmatic solution it actually was. What Blackmagic should have done with the 6K was ship it with an EF mount but make it removable, encouraging third parties to make mounts for it. That would open up the adapters route as well.

4 minutes ago, Dunjoye said:

YO!!!]

Wont mind this two on my 4k. I will void my warranty for this 

Why is it that some guy in China is always more inspired than the big company making the thing in the first place?

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2 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

You're right about the link between sensor size and the mount, and a lot of people saw the LS3000 mount situation as a bit of a hack, or a 'that'll do' situation, rather than the clever pragmatic solution it actually was. What Blackmagic should have done with the 6K was ship it with an EF mount but make it removable, encouraging third parties to make mounts for it. That would open up the adapters route as well.

Why is it that some guy in a bedroom in China always has better ideas than the massive company making the thing in a big expensive factory?!

It's the way the game goes man. 😕

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Well uninspired though it may be, at least it has 24p.

I'm not rushing out to buy the 6K... Going to take a look at what the S1H has in store first with regards RAW and codec options.

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12 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I think from both a marketing and engineering perspective it’s hard to add a mount where ZERO native lenses will work without a crop. Your auto crop idea is cool though.

Yet Canon seem to manage it with the video modes on most of their cameras though ;) 

13 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

One additional solution is to include a BM designed M43 to EF adapter. Like have it already mounted on the camera, but could easily be removed.

Yep.

When you consider that the price of the Pocket 6K is already cheap in relative terms then adding even a $200 non-focal reducing smart adapter onto the price and marketing it as a dual mount camera with no emphasis on either mount would have been no hindrance to sales of it. It would also have left the customer the option of using a focal reducing one if they wished as well.

17 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Why is it that some guy in China is always more inspired than the big company making the thing in the first place?

Because he doesn't have to put his hand up in the "War Room" and tell the emperor that his arse is clearly visible through those fine silk robes everyone else is pretending he's wearing?

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3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

If the Pocket6K had an MFT mount, did a simple 90% crop when you put on an MFT lens (and it can auto detect this) and did 100% otherwise then I doubt it would've raised nearly as much debate though.

Which is why we will see exactly that in the version they release at NAB ;)

I had three of the LS300 cameras. The adjustable sensor size was very novel. I found that I could get away with 89-93% regularly, but the image circle in each lens was different, so I had to test each one. Ultimately, I stopped using the LS300 cameras because there were too many issues (e.g. terrible screen, limited dynamic range, poor low light, etc.).

Are you sure about the NAB release? I think having a new Blackmagic mount (like Kinefinity) would be cool, but a M4/3 with a variable sensor size?

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

I hope Panasonic uses the P6K as a target to hit and surpass instead of pretend it doesn’t exist.

It has a chance to be the P6K with a decent mirrorless mount.

As much as I love Panasonic (I have 3 of them), I am afraid the S1H will not be a huge hit because of Panasonic's average (at best) autofocus. Even though, AF doesn't matter at all with other cameras (like the P4K & P6K), for some reason, people keep bashing on Panasonic for their poor/mediocre AF.

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11 minutes ago, drm said:

I had three of the LS300 cameras. The adjustable sensor size was very novel. I found that I could get away with 89-93% regularly, but the image circle in each lens was different, so I had to test each one. Ultimately, I stopped using the LS300 cameras because there were too many issues (e.g. terrible screen, limited dynamic range, poor low light, etc.).

Are you sure about the NAB release? I think having a new Blackmagic mount (like Kinefinity) would be cool, but a M4/3 with a variable sensor size?

As much as I love Panasonic (I have 3 of them), I am afraid the S1H will not be a huge hit because of Panasonic's average (at best) autofocus. Even though, AF doesn't matter at all with other cameras (like the P4K & P6K), for some reason, people keep bashing on Panasonic for their poor/mediocre AF.

Well, I’m going to withhold judgement until we see some final specs.

You could probably fit an oversized m4/3 sensor in the MFT mount that would be closer to S35. You just would have to design new lenses that are no longer telecentric. Existing M4/3 lenses would have vignetting and would have to crop in.

But at this point MFT is such a maligned (undeservedly so) format it doesn’t matter.

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9 minutes ago, drm said:

I had three of the LS300 cameras. The adjustable sensor size was very novel. I found that I could get away with 89-93% regularly, but the image circle in each lens was different, so I had to test each one. Ultimately, I stopped using the LS300 cameras because there were too many issues (e.g. terrible screen, limited dynamic range, poor low light, etc.).

A couple of my lenses go out to as far as 96-97% on my LS300 so in terms of the actual size of the sensor on the Pocket 6K being closer to a 1.6x then it would get quite close to full coverage on those but a as I say 90% windowed mode would have taken care of it in one fell swoop.

14 minutes ago, drm said:

Are you sure about the NAB release? I think having a new Blackmagic mount (like Kinefinity) would be cool, but a M4/3 with a variable sensor size?

No, I was only kidding.

As above, I'm not advocating VSM as that would be a whole different can of worms for BM to do scaling but just a straightforward 90% windowed mode would have sufficed IMHO.

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5 hours ago, drm said:

 

As much as I love Panasonic (I have 3 of them), I am afraid the S1H will not be a huge hit because of Panasonic's average (at best) autofocus. Even though, AF doesn't matter at all with other cameras (like the P4K & P6K), for some reason, people keep bashing on Panasonic for their poor/mediocre AF.

Because black magic markets their cameras as cinema cameras. Panasonic falls in with the rest of the DSLR type cameras, which all have superior auto focus. 

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The results are in for the Pocket 6k / Arri Alexa Mini / USRA Mini Pro / Red Raven 2019 Cinema Camera Tests by Tom Antos. If you have not watched the previous video with the blind comparison you may wish to do so to form your own unbiased opinion before watching this...

I had picked the Pocket 6k as my favorite in the blind test, the general public picked the USRA Mini Pro which was my number 2 choice.  If I were shooting in low light, from this test, I would pick the Pocket 6k compared to the others. For high light recovery, from this test IMHO, the Alexa Mini is still the king.

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1 hour ago, drm said:

Is it just me or are a huge number of these videos being shot in high frame rates? I am actually started to get bored just seeing these HFR videos. Where are the nice 24p files? :)

I agree!  That's the sweet spot right there.

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