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Andrew Reid

Sony A7R IV / A7S III / A9 II to feature 8K video, as new 60MP and 36MP full frame sensor specs leak

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1 hour ago, VTC said:

 

"I dislike having to navigate the PRIVATE folder structure every time to get at my files."

Seriously? I'd forgive this statement if you were quadriplegic and forced to type with a pawl clenched between your teeth but that is one silly and asinine complaint.

Maybe he IS a quadriplegic. 😧

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On 12/17/2018 at 12:10 AM, sanveer said:

This new XEVC codec seems pretty amazing. It does 4k (3840) at 10-bit 4-2-2 at 100mbps which is the same bitrate the Sony A-Series does for 8-bit 4-2-0 internal (so this new Codec seems way more efficient than HEVC or anything else out that for compression). It also has 4k at 12-bit 4-4-4 at 240mbps (the BRAW 12:1 is around 215mbps or so I think, I had calculated it roughly from the 4.6k bitrate on the Ursa Mini Pro and done a rough estimation for the 4k based solely on frame size).

It suddenly looks like a codec face-off is in the offing. 

this is amazing

Andrew,

you were right there from the beginning, championing h.265 with the samsung nx1 - now Sony is going down this path in a big way.  

This is huge.  Can you imagine where video encoding goes next and what's possible with a tiny little camera?

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A7s3 will get a watered down spec sheet. The rest seems destined for the FS line and above given Sony’s way of doing things. I wouldn’t get my hopes up for anything mind blowing. Just because it can doesn’t mean Sony will let it happen, remember how long we’ve had the same 8-bit 420 video in the e-mount hybrids. 

Chris

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I am surprise this encoding topic do not have its own thread.

What I can say, is not that someone have computed how much you can (or want to) compress in 100MBps or 240MBps, but how much processor power it will need for real time, be it 4k30p12b444, 8k or else.

Just encoding 4k24p10b422 on Atomos external recorder get it hot with a "light" encoder as ProRes.
Think that with a h265 it will be hotter, at lest the processor, also at this bitrate the quality should be exquisite.

For a "light" encoder (or maybe RAW) the problem is to be able to write that info somewhere, as direct to an SSD, so a better encoder is a solution.

While I welcome a such encoder, it will take time to have it in prosumer area.
Being in hardware IT, a computer powerfull to do it real-time will cost few thousands... just itself, and it is many times bigger than a camera.
Reduce it to  a photo camera size and will cost much-much more, if available soon.
How many can edit "real-time" an 4k stream on his/her computer (no proxy) ? How long it take to have a POST rendered on a 4k video ?

Do not forget that sensors get bigger (definition) and quicker, but only few "pro equipment" (I cannot say "camera") are able to record 1080p at high speed as 1000fps or more, and usually for very short time sequences as seconds...

We looks like kids wondering some technical miracles, and yes, they will become common in... a... while...  :relaxed:

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@GiM_6x The XT3 can encode 4k60 at 100, 200, or 400 Mbps in HEVC 10 bit. The E2 encodes realtime 4k120 10 bit HEVC at 230 Mbps. That technology is already here for the prosumer market--whether Sony uses it is up to them. As for 8k, I don't know whether that XEVC list is actually for the A7s3, or just the family of formats that Sony's entire lineup will pull from.

I think that real time 4k HEVC editing is not far off, and I think that part of the problem is just that our favorite software doesn't leverage existing hardware decoders yet, because as a "non-pro" codec there wasn't much incentive for developers. Resolve Lite doesn't officially support HEVC, and even Resolve Studio only added HEVC export very recently, and it's still slow and not very good. Meanwhile, I can use ffmpeg to generate proxies at significantly faster than 24 fps using my same hardware.

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3 hours ago, GiM_6x said:

I am surprise this encoding topic do not have its own thread.

As well as those for camera features and functions (both software and hardware). Like the Focus Transition isa great feature and needs to be developed further. 

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More details about 36MP IMX435 Exmor RS sensor:

6 native ISO:

ISO50 = Conversion Gain -18dB, EI +12dB, DR 17.4EV
ISO200 = Conversion Gain 0dB, EI +6dB, DR 15.4EV
ISO800 = Conversion Gain +18dB, EI 0dB, DR 13.4EV


ISO12800 = Conversion Gain +36dB, EI +6dB
ISO102400 = Conversion Gain +54dB, EI +6dB
ISO1638.4K = Conversion Gain +72dB, EI +24dB

A7SII sensor IMX235 only has 2 native ISO at ISO100 and ISO3200

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5 hours ago, androidlad said:

More details about 36MP IMX435 Exmor RS sensor:

6 native ISO:

ISO50 = Conversion Gain -18dB, EI +12dB, DR 17.4EV
ISO200 = Conversion Gain 0dB, EI +6dB, DR 15.4EV
ISO800 = Conversion Gain +18dB, EI 0dB, DR 13.4EV


ISO12800 = Conversion Gain +36dB, EI +6dB
ISO102400 = Conversion Gain +54dB, EI +6dB
ISO1638.4K = Conversion Gain +72dB, EI +24dB

A7SII sensor IMX235 only has 2 native ISO at ISO100 and ISO3200

That’s a huge gap between 800 & 12,800 ISO. Personally, I would have preferred 3200 & 6400 be included instead of the very high values.

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13 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

@GiM_6x The XT3 can encode 4k60 at 100, 200, or 400 Mbps in HEVC 10 bit. ... 

I think that real time 4k HEVC editing is not far off...

I have the NX1, so I know that some real time encoding exist and with good results (even from 2014!).

I follows the news (I am kind of a "rat-pack" for science-technic news) and recently Dell 7730 with the P5200 is able to do real-time processing 4k, any kind !!!
Fully configured, last spring and without P5200 (not available that time) was in 8-10 thousand dollars (and yes, WITH a Xeon processor!).
(I worked to an engineering-consulting company and with Dell desktops, Xeon 4 cores @ 3.6GHz, were able to real encode some marketing files from digital models.
FHD, not 4k...)

https://www.redsharknews.com/technology/item/5932-the-dell-precision-7730-could-be-the-fastest-performing-mobile-workstation-available-today

P5200 is also 10 bit video card, some HDR available if a proper monitor (laptop's display is only 8 bits, external one needed).
At 100% is the real-time processing, so with this video card problem solved.

Other competitors, Apple and HP are very close by with theirs computers.

I just wait to win a lotery (I play two) so I can buy one, since to process my NX1 4k h265 files is really a pain, minutes encoding for seconds video (well, on an old 2012 laptop:  i7x2.8GHz, SSD, nVidia...).

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@GiM_6x transcoding 4k nx1 footage to h264 is many times faster than real time using hardware decoding and encoding on a gtx 1080, running ffmpeg. The 1080 is a high end card for sure, but its last generation consumer hardware. I think the problem is that editing software doesnt use hardware de/encoders to their fullest. Even resolve, which uses the gpu a lot, does most video decoding on the cpu, and then processes effects on the gpu. Thats why my 6 year old i7 struggles with real time editing. If resolvr used my gpu decoder, it would be buttery smooth.

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23 hours ago, androidlad said:

More details about 36MP IMX435 Exmor RS sensor:

6 native ISO:

ISO50 = Conversion Gain -18dB, EI +12dB, DR 17.4EV
ISO200 = Conversion Gain 0dB, EI +6dB, DR 15.4EV
ISO800 = Conversion Gain +18dB, EI 0dB, DR 13.4EV


ISO12800 = Conversion Gain +36dB, EI +6dB
ISO102400 = Conversion Gain +54dB, EI +6dB
ISO1638.4K = Conversion Gain +72dB, EI +24dB

A7SII sensor IMX235 only has 2 native ISO at ISO100 and ISO3200

The only "native" one here is ISO200. 

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The a7r II uses the IMX251 sensor, and it is 42mp at a pixel size of 4.50. So the IMX435 using a pixel size of 4.88, sounds logical at 36mp. But the a7s mk II has a 8.40 pixel size. So it is almost twice the pith size of the new IMX251. I have no clue how it is going to super good at low light, even with 6 native ISO's? Hard to believe they could jump up the tech that much in one generation.

 

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