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Andrew Reid

Canon EOS R full frame mirrorless talk hots up

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17 minutes ago, Django said:

 

I thought about that too and it's the only thing giving me faint hope for non crop 4K. However Canon don't communicate on 4K crop  (no mention of it anywhere in the 5D4 or the M50 spec sheets) so I wouldn't take that at all as a sign that there isn't a 4K crop.

This is true and if I was a betting man I would say there probably is a crop. But even with a crop, the video will look great and there will be plenty of videographers making a fortune using it.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
8 minutes ago, mercer said:

Well first we have to assume that the specs are official Canon specs. They did originate from a google drive account. But assuming these are the actual specs, the biggest bummer for me is no IBIS. If the rumored $1900 price tag is correct, then I would probably be a buyer without question. Without it, I’m a wait and see. The other exciting rumor is 10bit HDMI out. So for me, the biggest questions that are still up in the air is Canon Log, 4K Crop, Price, and HDMI Out. And obviously Rolling Shutter. So it’s a wait and see, IMO. 

I doubt Rolling Shutter is going to be great. No way Canon is reading quick enough off the senor to eliminate that. All the FF cameras are pretty bad that we can afford for Rolling Shutter. Yeah no IBIS sounds like a pretty crazy omission if true. Yikes.

Now rumor has the Sony A7s mk III will be pretty good with RS, but that will probably be damn near a 4000 dollar camera.

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Just now, webrunner5 said:

This thing is looking more like a Canon 6D mk II than a 5D mk IV to me in a different form. This might be the 1995 dollar one and the 5D mk IV version is yet to drop for 3495 dollars?

Yeah I think you may be right here. I don’t think Canon is protecting their Cinema line as much as they’re protecting an upcoming 5DR.

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32 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You really have to have over 3x the mbps in ALL-I mode. The Canon is 120mbps in IPB mode, same mode the Sony uses. So yeah the overall data rate on the Sony is lower, but not as much as you would think.

120Mbit IPB codec / 4K 480Mbit ALL-I codec

It's not the same codec though is it as the compression format is different.

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23 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

This thing is looking more like a Canon 6D mk II than a 5D mk IV to me in a different form. This might be the 1995 dollar one and the 5D mk IV version is yet to drop for 3495 dollars, or what ever the Nikon Z7 is selling for?

More like an FF M50. 

Picked up the M50, its one hell of a camera for a compact mirror less.  i didn't think this Canon R was going to be better than the 1DXII AND 5DMKIV.. 

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31 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yeah I think you may be right here. I don’t think Canon is protecting their Cinema line as much as they’re protecting an upcoming 5DR.

Actually the current 5D4 is already superior IQ wise with it's beefy 4:2:2 500mbps codec, DCI 4K resolution & C-log. The 1DX2 is of course even better with 4k60p, 1080p 120fps & 1.3x 4k crop.

So yeah Canon is clearly protecting C-line & DSLR line by segmenting markets through careful feature placements.

EOS R is going to be mainly aimed at still shooters that dabble in video & Youtubers/Vloggers that'll eat it up.

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3 hours ago, MdB said:

Yeah all those clowns shooting 1.5x S35 hey? 

Oh yeah, because THAT's what you buy a full frame camera for! SILLY ME!!

I don't know how in your head 1.74x crop or a 1.9x crop = 1.5x S35, by the way.

16 minutes ago, Dunjoye said:

More like an FF M50. 

Picked up the M50, its one hell of a camera for a compact mirror less.  i didn't think this Canon R was going to be better than the 1DXII AND 5DMKIV.. 

Why the hell should it not be? It's probably going to cost upward of $3k!! And I'd be surprised if that 28-70mm F2.0 was less than $2k.

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1 hour ago, Cinegain said:

And those fanatic people would be right, so who cares about how they're being viewed. Specs and value wise Sony do leap the traditional approach from the likes of Canon and Nikon (mind you I don't own a Sony and probably won't be getting one in the foreseeable future). Even Fujifilm is getting ahead in the game. Panasonic fans can still make some great cases for the specs and handling of their cameras... but know FF is a different audience or perhaps people respect the points they make about the MFT system being awesome. 😛

Tell me how is Sony fanboys right at least for Nikon, oh yes that mystical Sony camera that will have better body, build/sealing, viewfinder, LCD, 10 bit, etc, etc. Everyone is making as if Nikon z7 is the only camera that Nikon has announced. While the z6 has what every reviewer are saying is better ergonomic, build, viewfinder, LCD and 10 bit out, which really makes LOG not just a marketing gimmick for the same price as a A7iii. That same camera which was herald as a game changer in terms of value to money in the FF photo video hybrid camera only six month ago. The only point of contention for now is about autofocus, DPreview goes as far as saying that the Z7 has the best video autofocus in all Dslr/MILC. OH, yes it does not has eye auto focus, I heard even if face detect works extremely well.

People on here remind me like those that are still parroting that coal, nuclear or even gas is cheaper than renewable energy because they watch news or analysis 10 years ago and they did not take 5 min to google and see that the cost was divided by ten during this time. Today, perhaps not for long until Canon (very unlikely) and Panasonic release their rumored FF MILC, have the best (might not be in everything) package for a full frame Mirror less camera video/hybrid camera in the z6.

 

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2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I'll just leave this right here... almost 4000 votes. Looks like they where pretty spot on..

 

LRM_EXPORT_20180902_175237.jpg

I once asked if the AF on the A7iii was as good as canons dpaf on inanimate objects, aka non face tracking & got more hate than I have ever seen online. Turns out it was true, but it was just a question at that point. Funny because I am actually starting to hate canon at this point, but I do hate the religious fanatic attitude (dont you dare question!) with many sony fans. I started with sony, but was never like that. 

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2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I'll just leave this right here... almost 4000 votes. Looks like they where pretty spot on..

 

LRM_EXPORT_20180902_175237.jpg

You understand how inherently flawed a poll like this is, right? If anything this just proves that the other fan boys are more fanatic - why would Sony people vote for themselves in this poll? 

It's like asking for a vote on which political party is the most out-of-touch - you think people are going to vote for their own party? 

See what I mean?

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42 minutes ago, EthanAlexander said:

You understand how inherently flawed a poll like this is, right? If anything this just proves that the other fan boys are more fanatic - why would Sony people vote for themselves in this poll? 

It's like asking for a vote on which political party is the most out-of-touch - you think people are going to vote for their own party? 

See what I mean?

Nah its accurate. Believe me. Im a Sony fanboy and Fuji shooter. I review all of them.

If I review a Sony all is well.

If I review a Fuji I get attacked by Sony Fanboys.

If I review a Pentax or Nikon I'm attacked by Sony and Fuji Fanboys.

If I review a Canon... all hell breaks loose since even Sony Walkman fanboys attack.

I base this on receiving and reading 26 090 comments over the last couple of years. Just visit any forum and see for yourself. For example checkout the thread about the EOS-R on EOSHD.

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, Snowbro said:

I once asked if the AF on the A7iii was as good as canons dpaf on inanimate objects, aka non face tracking & got more hate than I have ever seen online. Turns out it was true, but it was just a question at that point. Funny because I am actually starting to hate canon at this point, but I do hate the religious fanatic attitude (dont you dare question!) with many sony fans. I started with sony, but was never like that. 

After my 6Dmkii review I had to block some really vicious people that weren't attacking just me but also people commenting on the video.

And not about specs. We are talking threats and in general things that would lead to a punch in the face irl.

The weirdest thing was they weren't all anonymous. They actually used their business accounts...freelancers, production house employees using their official accounts... 

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On 9/1/2018 at 1:47 PM, Cinegain said:

Gotta work that YouTube-algorithm tho amirite? Believe there's thumbnail-etiquette, videos need to be regular and 10mins+, shouty titles with ALLCAPS, exclamation marks and clickbait... 😂

That sounds more like the realm of expectation yeah... don't forget: no IBIS... no 10-bit, no 4K60p, no DPAF in 4K etc either.

Yup. YouTube is a game. Gotta play it right to win

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1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

Nah its accurate. Believe me. Im a Sony fanboy and Fuji shooter. I review all of them.

If I review a Sony all is well.

If I review a Fuji I get attacked by Sony Fanboys.

If I review a Pentax or Nikon I'm attacked by Sony and Fuji Fanboys.

If I review a Canon... all hell breaks loose since even Sony Walkman fanboys attack.

I base this on receiving and reading 26 090 comments over the last couple of years. Just visit any forum and see for yourself. For example checkout the thread about the EOS-R on EOSHD.

 

 

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/06/why-sony-fans-are-called-cockroaches-in-japan/

its on the Japanese wiki page too, but not on english wiki

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ゲートキーパー問題

Professional Sony fanboys running wild.. now they are more clever but you can sorta tell, some forum literally dominated by sony fanboys (especially China & Taiwan), they put other other brand down all the time.

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3 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

 

 

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/06/why-sony-fans-are-called-cockroaches-in-japan/

 

its on the Japanese wiki page too, but not on english wiki

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ゲートキーパー問題

 

Professional Sony fanboys running wild..

Interesting. A very close friend of mine worked at a company where they where hired by Nikon to attend various photo forums. But the objective was always to gather info and clear up facts. Never to talk down about other brands.

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5 hours ago, mercer said:

I don’t think there’s a crop. They specifically mention EF-S Crop Shooting in the specs which they wouldn’t need to crop to if there was a 1.74x crop. I know that’s because they’re talking about FHD, but if they’re going to go to the trouble of mentioning a specific crop in these “final” specs, then why wouldn’t they mention a 4K crop as well.

Because FHD aps-c crop is a feature.  The expected 4k crop is an encuberance.

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Matt is right, the EF-S crop is a feature so it gets a mention in the specs, even if only in passing.

EF-S crop might only apply to the full frame 1080p mode, so it could still be 1.75x only in 4K and EF-S/Full-Frame selector would be greyed out in the menus.

Seems pretty obvious that it's a 5D IV in a mirrorless body. It's not suddenly going to be doing miracles on the tech side.

Once again Canon played it too safe.

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On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:37 PM, OliKMIA said:

Personally I really prefer the articulated screen found on the 6DII and the GH5 (except to mount on some gimbal). Why do you prefer the tilted screen?

Magic lantern showed multiple times that the Canon cameras can do so much more and I'm not talking about some exotic features that freeze the camera. It's clearing crippling.

Let's wait for the final specs of the Canon system but no doubt that they will sell them by truck loads.

Why would they bother since people continue to buy Canon?

ML do more by making the camera perform beyond it's safe specs. You can do that with literally ALL cameras, but the manufacturers do not do it for very sound reasons that have nothing to do with crippling. A manufacturer has to consider liability issues for a start, particularly when delivering a product that cannot always meet it's spec. The operating mode they set up has to work ALL of the time and not fail/glitch out, which is something that can easily happen when the hardware is pushed beyond it's stable limits. They also have to consider the effect of returns as a result of unreliability or premature failure and what that costs them. One return will cost you the profit on some larger number of sales. Returns have a negative effect on the bottom line, and any manufacturer that produces a product where that happens excessively is probably not going to be in business very long even if they sell lots of product.

43 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Matt is right, the EF-S crop is a feature so it gets a mention in the specs, even if only in passing.

EF-S crop might only apply to the full frame 1080p mode, so it could still be 1.75x only in 4K and EF-S/Full-Frame selector would be greyed out in the menus.

Seems pretty obvious that it's a 5D IV in a mirrorless body. It's not suddenly going to be doing miracles on the tech side.

Once again Canon played it too safe.

I think it possible there may some compromises with AF in 4K as well. Based on the stills specs there is a significant impact on burst frame rate when using DPAF, presumably because the processor is having a big chunk of it's time occupied by AF tracking.

13 hours ago, mercer said:

480Mbps in All-I 4K in h.264... that’s higher than the GH5, right?

Over 5000 AF points.

Now if RS isn’t bad, this thing could be a beast.

Not all of those AF points may be useable at any one point in time though. Specs often give numbers of AF points, what they don't say is how many are actually being polled at any given point.

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6 hours ago, mercer said:

Sony is still using the 100mbps 4K. You guys are too much. This camera will have AF that is unmatched by at least a generation.

There is a big difference in quality based on how a codec is implemented. If the encoding is sub-optimal and inefficient (something you might have to do to keep heat under control for example) then you might well need more bits to get similar quality, so don't read too much into the bit rate.

6 hours ago, mercer said:

This is true and if I was a betting man I would say there probably is a crop. But even with a crop, the video will look great and there will be plenty of videographers making a fortune using it.

I think there will be a crop, based on the limitations in the stills burst modes which suggest that the processor is having some issues handling all the tasks it needs to do. When you go to video the easiest way to address that is to reduce the amount of data that needs to be processed, and the way to do that is to only use a portion of the available sensor in one way or another. So either cropping or line skipping is likely.

5 hours ago, Dunjoye said:

More like an FF M50. 

Picked up the M50, its one hell of a camera for a compact mirror less.  i didn't think this Canon R was going to be better than the 1DXII AND 5DMKIV.. 

It will be more than the M50, but less than the 5D4.

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