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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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27 minutes ago, anonim said:

... including myself... that I called new version of crowdfunding: by using of time :)

Let's announce something unfinished half year in advance to prevent competitive existing product not to be bought. Of course, anybody in theory could withdraw initial sum - but in praxis it would be rare... Buyers of BMCCC were willing to wait year and half for preordered cameras... So let's collect thousand of preorders to bind customers - although even now it is obvious that they couldn't be dispatched to the time for most of preordering buyers.

But, I'm no regretting any moment - from the beginning of GH5s I protested because of insolent price. From my point of view, Panasonic deserved to be warned in a such way. And I like that BM did it.

I'm just afraid that such behavior will be from today new standard... and I dislike it. Contrary, I liked very much when BM's announcement of UMP was completely opposite: WYSIWYG NOW!

Yes, it is annoying. we are going to live with announcements from now on, it seems!

I bet 4euros, that by the time the Pocket will be ready for shipment, half of the people pre-ordering - from now until then - will have change their minds! 

The spec wars have just began. I hope we all are going to forget about that in a couple of years, when all cameras will be just amazing anyway, and keep/start creating a little bit.

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My dear erstwhile member can you please stop attacking John Brawley now. I have long since given up on camera forum arguments so might not be completely up on who is right and who is wrong-evil /

I like the pictures. A lot.  This camera will probably replace the micro cinema camera for me as it’s not much bigger and is much easier to work with.  I didn’t feel as strongly about the 4K

What a shame. Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat t

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7 minutes ago, Dan Wake said:

will be possible to connect one of those HDD to the camera and record on them?

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-T5-Portable-SSD-MU-PA500B/dp/B073GZBT36/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1523486149&sr=8-3&keywords=ssd+3.1

which will be the cleanest high iso? I mean 1600 iso may be clean enough? thx

 

It is even in the product's page. Better go to the source, https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera  scroll down a bit.. there, you got it!

It is amazing, and a very simple solution. I do some events per year, and that would be amazing. The camera has a Power In also, so good bye batteries (for events covering).

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22 minutes ago, DBounce said:
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Sure, but enjoy the 10 minutes of battery life:grimace:

 With the T5 at ~3.40W peak power consumption, the runtime of BMPCC4K when recording would be ~45 minutes.  

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Who cares about the GH5. The IQ was always a little overrated with great specs. I’ve seen some really nice work from it, but I’ve also seen a some poop. Who cares? Cameras come and go. They get refined and a better one is released. And then a different camera is released that’s better than that one.

Get over it already. The best camera is the one you have with you... even if it does have plastic looking footage. 

Hahahahaha...

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Seriously, though... I’m just joking around but really I don’t get why people are getting so fucking angry over a stupid camera... or even worse what some people on a nerdy camera forum think?

If you like the GH5... then awesome.... there’s no reason to get the PocketII... really I’d prefer it. Isn’t there already enough footage floating around that looks exactly the same... do we really need more?

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21 minutes ago, Jn- said:

 

I think its wise to wait, even though i’m tempted to preorder, i’ll wait for the first quality reviews of the prores, if its good ill be in.

 

 

I'd rather get it a few months later, anyway, and let someone else be a ginnea pig tester and we're on v1.4 of the firmware. :grin:

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13 hours ago, jonpais said:

I'm not seeing it (the end of pixel peeping days, that is). You really talk like a fanboy, and we haven't even seen footage from the camera yet. And while I very well might buy it, because I think it's probably the cat's pajamas, and I happen to like the people at BMD, I'm not about to drool over a camera that won't be released for another five or six months.


I feel even ignoring the BMPCC4K release we're still creeping near to the "beginning of the end", with cameras such as the Panasonic GH5S. (arguably some people could even say that happened years ago with the GH2/5Dmk3/etc)

Just like in the stills world, if you've got a D800 then you really can't fault the sensor performance. Instead it is all about usability/ergonomics/wifi/AF/IBIS/etc.. improvements that have came in since then, but the days of peering at test charts for of say a D300 vs D700 vs 5Dmk2 vs 50D vs etc are "over". The sensor performance from any affordable stills ILC released today in 2018 is going to be good enough, and you're better off worrying about "everything else" that it implements. 

My point is I think that day is not too far off for the video world with these affordable cameras as well, and likes of a GH5S/BMPCC4K are hinting at that day is nearing closer. 

 

13 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

128gb SD card OR C.Fast ------- I'll be mostly shooting ProRes, so SD is more likely, but then again buy nice or buy twice, C.Fast can handle everything, SD might struggle with RAW.

128gb USB-C thumb ------- for those times when my main card is full


I imagine for people trying to shoot with 4K on the BMPCC4K with an ultra frugal budget, that their shooting style will have a lot of similarities to the way RED ONE folks shoot (for those who don't have the SSD module, or only have a limited number of gigs on it). At least until CFast prices fall further. 

What they'll do is for the tripod shots they'll use their USB-C (just like RED ONEs using their RED-DRIVE for tripod shots) but then switch over to using their CFast card when handheld (again, just like how RED ONE owners would then switch over to CF or SSD when then going handheld). 

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14 hours ago, Dennis L Sorensen said:

I would not buy this for taking stills - unless you are a cinema guy and don't experct a "regular" stills camera as there is no dedicated stills functions and no mechanical shutter. But for taking a BTS frame grab its fine.


Or for location scouting it could be absolutely perfect. 
 

14 hours ago, Dennis L Sorensen said:

The monitor is the same as the one found on their Ursa Mini 4K and 4.6K (not pro 4"). So expect what you get from that and not like 1000 nits. I think it was Stuart from BMD who said it - as a source.


Also the same as their BMD VA 5" monitor/recorder.
 

12 hours ago, jonpais said:

That's a bit like comparing apples to oranges, isn't it? I mean, the GH4 is a camera that you could rig out and shoot like a true cinema camera, while the Micro is like a super Go Pro on steroids with the ability to extract 13 stops of dynamic range.

Can rig out the Micro too, seen many nice ones.
 

12 hours ago, jonpais said:

The ergos are also a bit tricky, with the side buttons all crowded together and flush to the body, while the GH4's larger, chunkier controls are easier to use, especially if you're wearing gloves.

Arguably the Micro has the potential to be better, as you can use an external hand grip control with the Micro interface port on its side, much better than trying to blindly reach for the GH4 controls. 

 

 

10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm not sure what BMD are going to do with their portion of the £54.98 that I've given CVP to pre-order one.

Or how they are going to give me it back if I change my mind.

I bet 100% that BMD doesn't see a penny of that, instead CVP is holding onto all of that themselves.

 

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6 hours ago, Mokara said:

Well, I am a scientist, and the idea of using tools intended for home use in a professional environment and expecting them to perform like professional tools is ludicrous IMO. That is not to say that you can't use them, sometimes for the odd thing it might be convenient and cost effective, but if I am going to do something routinely where I need reliable performance I get the proper equipment for the job. Why cut corners and take chances with stuff that might not hold up or be completely effective because it was designed for a completely different occasional use in a home setting? When you are working time is money and you want your equipment to always work and always work properly. 

I have one of these Kitchenaid mixers at home, which is fine for the odd baking I do on occasion, but there is NO WAY that I would depend on it if I was running a commercial operation using it 8 hours a day. For that I would buy a proper commercial mixer, because the home mixer would probably last a few weeks before burning out.

This is kind of how I see these arguments fretting about consumer cameras being "not good enough" for professional jobs. News flash, they were not designed for professional use, they were designed for home use. If you are shooting video professionally, then buy the professional tool for the job. IMO any "professional" who wants to use them as professional tools is probably not quite as professional as they might want to be. It does not mean that they are not doing good work, but clearly they have difficulty making a living doing their job if they have to scrimp like that to do work.

On the contrary, true professionals use the right tool for the job and do not rely on one camera to do everything. I've worked on high end TVC's where we have used an Alexa Mini, A7S and the old pocket cinema camera on the same shoot. Nobody cared what the clients would think (had 10 clients/ agency on set last shoot!)  about the A7S, a 'consumer camera' being used. A professional sees the potential in any camera and just gets on with the job of making great pictures while people on forums bitch and moan because they can't find the camera that does it all. 

The pocket 4K will be an amazing camera at an amazing price. Sure, a tilting screen and internel ND Filters would have been nice but they are easy fixes.

 

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7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

GH5 is 1 years old, and shaked the industry well. It sold amazingly well for such a camera, there isn't a company or a group of people that are in the business that do not have one, just in case. What it does is just amazing for the price. I mean, what were the other options last year? What are the other options right now, for less than 1800euros? There isn't any, really.

Also, if you need an Alexa, you take an Alexa, how the GH5 is in the same conversation with a camera that cost as much as dozens of GH5, (multiple dozens, and add a couple of GH5s dozens, for good measure!) it is seriously above me. Do really people think, that Arri is doomed because of the Pocket then?


By the time the BMPCC4K ships it will be closer to two years than one year since the GH5 announcement.

 

6 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Could be that BM were keeping this so secret, they hadn't applied for the license before the announcement? Just included the codes they already have licenses for. And they were just as surprised as us to see the words 'Prores RAW' written in a banner at the convention.

I really can't see them releasing this camera without it included.


I like this explanation a lot. 

 

6 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I have the same issue with my electronic baking machine. 3-4 hours for just one bread! at least it overheats less than my business partner's a6300!


Maybe you should use the a6300 as a toaster. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I think you summed it up well.  This is a watershed moment.  Assuming this camera is what we think it is there will really only be refinements going forward.  If you can't get it done with this thing it's not the camera that is the problem.  Sure the camera is missing Canon's DPAF, IBIS, internal NDs, etc.  But two or three years ago nobody was even asking for that stuff (except maybe some people asked for NDs).


Am glad at least one person gets what I'm saying!

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I bet 4euros, that by the time the Pocket will be ready for shipment, half of the people pre-ordering - from now until then - will have change their minds! 


Don't believe half of the actual pre orders placed will be cancelled. 

But I would believe if half of the people considering a possible order of the BMPCC4K changes their mind  by the time it ships.

 

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10 hours ago, markr041 said:

I do not like hyperbolic language ("garbage", etc.) and I think that subjective opinions on how videos look ("looks plasticy") do not add much value (but are interesting). However,  I think that worse are personal comparisons that imply that some poster's opinions are more worthy than others'. While I think that is of course true, the weights placed are purely subjective and the criteria not obvious. The best videographer or DP might be a total ignoramus about anything but the camera he or she uses, or a paid shill for some manufacturer, or a poor communicator, or be logic-challenged, or see everything in black and white (not literally!). And an armchair enthusiast who never shot a video might know something others do not and have exquisite tastes regarding video art. Or someone may know more about optics, sensors, or production techniques without ever even seeing a video. Most respected critics of art (including film) do not paint or shoot. "Greater minds" is not conducive to free discussion - should there be prerequisites for posting (submit your videos, or take a test - which camera has the best low-light performance? why is 8 bit better than 10 bit? write down all the perks you have ever received from manufacturers )? :)

Yours truly, a lesser mind.

You’re right Mark. I should have replied in a more civil manner, like when this instigator tells people they must be on drugs if he doesn’t agree with their posts. You just don’t get it, do you? He intentionally uses words like garbage, junk and trash in order to offend people, not solely to describe image quality. Anyone who believes otherwise is deceiving themselves. Also, there is nothing wrong in asking to see the work of highly opinionated commentors. I think it could be very instructive. If someone has worked on the Marvel television series, that carries more weight with me than a person hurling offensive language behind a veil of anonymity.

Keep up the good work.

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13 minutes ago, jonpais said:

You’re right Mark. I should have replied in a more civil manner, like when this instigator tells people they must be on drugs if he doesn’t agree with their posts. You just don’t get it, do you? He intentionally uses words like garbage, junk and trash in order to offend people, not solely to describe image quality. Anyone who believes otherwise is deceiving themselves. 

Keep up the good work.

I am not sure whether your last sentence is meant to be an insult or what. I was not defending any inflammatory posts (or posters) that (who) deliberately insult or offend people (and I totally agree with you on which posts they are);  I was only cautioning against denigrating people based on their profession, their vita or their videos' quality, or even whether they post or shoot videos as if that were relevant to the substance of any remark. I think deliberately insulting posts should just be removed by a moderator, because they seem to lead to even more insulting posts. I have been trapped by them too, responding in kind - I am no saint. It's the insulting baby syndrome, and it is contagious.

My last post was not meant to be personally insulting (I was not personally insulted and was not angry at anyone). It was meant to counter credentialism as a criterion for judging posts. That's it. Maybe I just don't get it. In any case, given my credentials, no need to pay attention... :)

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2 minutes ago, markr041 said:

I am not sure whether your last sentence is meant to be an insult or what. I was not defending any inflammatory posts (or posters) that (who) deliberately insult or offend people (and I totally agree with you on which posts they are);  I was only cautioning against denigrating people based on their profession, their vita or their videos' quality, or even whether they post or shoot videos as if that were relevant to the substance of any remark. I think deliberately insulting posts should just be removed by a moderator, because they seem to lead to even more insulting posts. I have been trapped by them too, responding in kind - I am no saint. It's the insulting baby syndrome, and it is contagious.

My last post was not meant to be personally insulting (I was not personally insulted and was not angry at anyone). It was meant to counter credentialism as a criterion for judging posts. That's it. Maybe I just don't get it. In any case, given my credentials, no need to pay attention... :)

Not attacking you, Mark. I respect your contributions.

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9 hours ago, Mokara said:

Lol, well, if he has clients and works on "serious projects", one assumes that he would not be using a consumer orientated camera in the first place. At least one hopes not :)

Yea, I'm not sure what is even being implied in this post? Most big projects use cameras from a rental house. Allot of "professionals" don't actually own personal cameras. BUT... It would be nice to have something that can be used on a gimbal/drone to get extra shots or as a B-Cam to get some extra angles. It's also nice to own something you can do personal projects with that's in the same ball-park as "bigger cameras". On the project I'm working on right now... the Red is kind of a pain to carry around. Even on the Ronin... it's HEAVY. We REALLY wanted something smaller for a hand gimbal... but the A7sII (lack of 60fps 4k) and GH5 (lack of clean resolution) aren't making the cut, unfortunately. Again, it's frustrating because the GH5 is ALMOST there... there's nothing about the specs of the GH5 that couldn't be used professionally... besides the uncontrollable  Sharpening and Noise Reduction.

I have no idea why a discussion on "garbage" cameras is getting so personal... THEY'RE CAMERAS. They're inanimate objects. Everyone gets new ones all the time and there's always something better around the corner (Blackmagic Pocket 4K). Sheesh....

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27 minutes ago, bwhitz said:

Yea, I'm not sure what is even being implied in this post? Most big projects use cameras from a rental house. Allot of "professionals" don't actually own personal cameras. BUT... It would be nice to have something that can be used on a gimbal/drone to get extra shots or as a B-Cam to get some extra angles. It's also nice to own something you can do personal projects that's in the same ball-park as "bigger cameras". On the project I'm working on right now... the Red is kind of a pain to carry around. Even on the Ronin... it's HEAVY. We REALLY wanted something smaller for a hand gimbal... but the A7sII (lack of 60fps 4k) and GH5 (lack of clean resolution) aren't making the cut, unfortunately. Again, it's frustrating because the GH5 is ALMOST there... there's nothing about the specs of the GH5 that couldn't be used professionally... besides the uncontrollable  Sharpening and Noise Reduction.

I’ve got no problem at all with this sort of explanation and agree about the noise reduction and sharpening. 

Edit: since you just edited your last post - words like garbage and telling people they must be on drugs is not the best way to convince people of anything. You mean to tell me that calling cameras garbage is not offensive to the thousands of forum members who use those cameras every day? You deliberately use inciteful language to stir people up, then pretend it’s just about the camera. The other possibility is that you don’t realize how those words affect people - but I don’t think so, since your last response was worded in such a way as to not give offense.

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23 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

Yeah, I'm a big false color user myself, and I wish Panasonic added that to my GH5S.

I used it with an Ikan monitor I had for my Micro. I thought it worked really good as a quick reference for skin tones. Not the best way to compose, though. I hope we can set it up to a custom button to turn on and off as needed. 

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