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Panasonic GH6 rumours

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2 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Not a rumor but more of a fantasy speculation.

Ignoring the fabled organic sensor, I was thinking about what Panasonic could do to keep pace and perhaps surpass full frame performance. With the release of new quad-Bayer sensors in smart phones that drastically increases lowlight performance, I materialized a fantasy spec sheet for the GH6.

Micro 4/3 48Mpx quad-bayer sensor

This would kill two birds with one stone. This would drastically improve lowlight performance by offering a mode that would “sacrifice”  megapixels for better lowlight performance. The final product would be 12Mpx, enough for a 4K video resolution in lowlight situations.

When there is enough light the full 48Mpx could be used for greater resolution photos or 8K video.

6.5 stops of IBIS in-body with upto 7 stops with a good OIS lens

This is a strength of M43. Build upon it.

HEVC 10-bit high bitrate codec

An ALL-I codec is great but for HFR 4K and 8K I think having HEVC for storage efficiency is crucial.

Dual CFast/Express slots

At least 14 stops of DR

Improved autofocus

Some surprises 😉

You had me up until CFast cards!

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1 minute ago, newfoundmass said:

You had me up until CFast cards!

I'll add USB-C port to the spec then, a la P4K.

However, the price of CFast cards are partly offset by their small size in comparison to an external SSD.

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6 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Not a rumor but more of a fantasy speculation.

Ignoring the fabled organic sensor, I was thinking about what Panasonic could do to keep pace and perhaps surpass full frame performance. With the release of new quad-Bayer sensors in smart phones that drastically increases lowlight performance, I materialized a fantasy spec sheet for the GH6.

Micro 4/3 48Mpx quad-bayer sensor

This would kill two birds with one stone. This would drastically improve lowlight performance by offering a mode that would “sacrifice”  megapixels for better lowlight performance. The final product would be 12Mpx, enough for a 4K video resolution in lowlight situations.

When there is enough light the full 48Mpx could be used for greater resolution photos or 8K video.

6.5 stops of IBIS in-body with upto 7 stops with a good OIS lens

This is a strength of M43. Build upon it.

HEVC 10-bit high bitrate codec

An ALL-I codec is great but for HFR 4K and 8K I think having HEVC for storage efficiency is crucial.

Dual CFast/Express slots

At least 14 stops of DR

Improved autofocus

Some surprises 😉

The Quad Bayer concept is actually pretty amazing. With large pixels, it could have better low light capabilities. Though 10MP and 40MP may make more sense. Unless it was 12MP and 48MP for photos, and a mildly cropped 10MP for video (for high frame rate video, with added EIS, and the crop for wider metabones support).

I also hope they introduce 14-bit RAW. They need to target taking away some of the XT3 and A7 Series customers (the 24-26MP camera users). 

I was also thinking, that, if the GH6 does what the iPhone XS Max does, it could merge 2 (or more, differently exposed) frames for video and increase the dynamic range of video substantially. It could actually have more dynamic range in video than it does in photo. It could beat the 13-stop dynamic range that the GH5 has (maybe 14+ stops?). It could use this for HEIF (/HLG format?) HDR photo too where it could produce 15-18 stop HDR images. 

Some of the proposed/ next generation of SD Express cards are insanely fast. Unless you're shooting in uncompressed RAW, you probably won't need faster read and write speeds. 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/06/29/sd-express-cards-are-coming-985mb-s-transfer-speeds-and-128tb-capacity/

 

I hope Panasonic becomes the first smartphone to explore the possibility of having a 5G chip on board, to directly upload content on cloud. This could also speeded up updates and turn around for work. 

I hope they use the chassis of the old body (including all external parts), even the old LCD and viewfinder. And use these to keep the Price Constant. $2000 seems like a good price.

I agree with the move to HEIV video. They could keep it at 200mbps at the highest quality, keeping file size and efficiency in mind. 

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11 hours ago, kye said:

I'll add USB-C port to the spec then, a la P4K.

However, the price of CFast cards are partly offset by their small size in comparison to an external SSD.

I totally forgot the Pocket could do this. Yeah this would be a wonderful option to have. 

7 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah HDR that gets you genuine 14 stops Alexa dynamic range would be an easy sell. Something like BRAW is also a huge sell for just its ease of use. 

I highly doubt we will se BRAW in anything but a blackmagic camera. I also don’t think we will see internal RAW in a camera this cheap in any camera besides blackmagic except for maybe FUJIFILM.

FUJIFILM could really move into a great video solution position. They already kinda are. Great color science, built-in film emulation, vastly improving video codecs and capabilities with each release.

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1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

I totally forgot the Pocket could do this. Yeah this would be a wonderful option to have. 

I highly doubt we will se BRAW in anything but a blackmagic camera. I also don’t think we will see internal RAW in a camera this cheap in any camera besides blackmagic except for maybe FUJIFILM.

FUJIFILM could really move into a great video solution position. They already kinda are. Great color science, built-in film emulation, vastly improving video codecs and capabilities with each release.

Yeah if Fujifilm puts out there own compressed RAW format I will probably die.

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7 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah if Fujifilm puts out there own compressed RAW format I will probably die.

People certainly discuss codecs like there are lives at stake, but this is the first evidence I've seen of it being true!

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Soooo...when's it happening?

Will be looking to buy a new camera this autumn to complement my GH5. I'd really like to see what the GH6 offers before going for a S1 or Blackmagic 4k. GH5S just seems too expensive nowadays. Will be selling my Canon C100. Lovely camera but I hardly ever use it anymore.

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48 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I'm guessing early next year they'll announce the GH6. 

I hope they introduce a few flavours of compressed RAW on the GH6. And that they announce it before the end of the year. 

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Now the P6K is with us, I think this changes the landscape a bit for the hotly anticipated cameras like GH6, A7Siii, etc.  

From my own perspective, I think the following improvements over a GH5 would be 'enough' to sell a bunch of them:

  • Built-in ND that can be controlled by auto-exposure
    Being able to set the camera to a set aperture, a set shutter speed, and then having auto-ISO and auto-ND control the exposure for me would be spectacular.
  • Higher bitrates / resolutions
    This would be some combination of: RAW 4K, 6K 16:9, and "8K-like" 4:3 anamorphic mode.
  • Mix-and-match codecs and bitrates and framerates
    Being able to choose from any combination of bitrate (eg. 100/150/200/300/400/600/800Mbps), and codec (H264/H265), and frame rate (1/2/4/7/10/23.976/24/25/30/50/60/HFR) that the hardware is capable of would be great.  Low framerates are great for time lapses or special effects too.
  • Better stabilisation
    Not sure if better IBIS is possible, but adding a GoPro/OsmoPocket type EIS on top of IBIS would allow great SOOC clips in difficult situations.

For bonus points, having a removable mount so you can either have MFT and use adapters, or go EF or Nikon if you wanted to (and maybe a S35 sensor with the smarts to know what lens is attached and adapt appropriately).  Better low-light / dual-ISOs wouldn't go astray either.

The GH5 is a workhorse, so keeping the ergonomics and practicality / reliability but adding an ND, bumping up the image, and making it more customisable would be spectacular.

I am a very happy GH5 user, and when I look at the P4K I think "No thanks, I don't want the huge data rates of RAW, but I do need IBIS", and when I look at the P6K I think "No thanks, I almost have 6K, but I do need IBIS".  The GH5 was released in early-2017 and is still winning against late-2019 cameras.  Assuming that the GH6 is released early-2020 and needs to still be winning against late-2022 cameras, it will need these things, although they're not out of reach technically, it just needs a company willing to put them all into a camera, and Panasonic has a track record of that.

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7 hours ago, kye said:

Now the P6K is with us, I think this changes the landscape a bit for the hotly anticipated cameras like GH6, A7Siii, etc.  

From my own perspective, I think the following improvements over a GH5 would be 'enough' to sell a bunch of them:

  • Built-in ND that can be controlled by auto-exposure
    Being able to set the camera to a set aperture, a set shutter speed, and then having auto-ISO and auto-ND control the exposure for me would be spectacular.
  • Higher bitrates / resolutions
    This would be some combination of: RAW 4K, 6K 16:9, and "8K-like" 4:3 anamorphic mode.
  • Mix-and-match codecs and bitrates and framerates
    Being able to choose from any combination of bitrate (eg. 100/150/200/300/400/600/800Mbps), and codec (H264/H265), and frame rate (1/2/4/7/10/23.976/24/25/30/50/60/HFR) that the hardware is capable of would be great.  Low framerates are great for time lapses or special effects too.
  • Better stabilisation
    Not sure if better IBIS is possible, but adding a GoPro/OsmoPocket type EIS on top of IBIS would allow great SOOC clips in difficult situations.

For bonus points, having a removable mount so you can either have MFT and use adapters, or go EF or Nikon if you wanted to (and maybe a S35 sensor with the smarts to know what lens is attached and adapt appropriately).  Better low-light / dual-ISOs wouldn't go astray either.

The GH5 is a workhorse, so keeping the ergonomics and practicality / reliability but adding an ND, bumping up the image, and making it more customisable would be spectacular.

I am a very happy GH5 user, and when I look at the P4K I think "No thanks, I don't want the huge data rates of RAW, but I do need IBIS", and when I look at the P6K I think "No thanks, I almost have 6K, but I do need IBIS".  The GH5 was released in early-2017 and is still winning against late-2019 cameras.  Assuming that the GH6 is released early-2020 and needs to still be winning against late-2022 cameras, it will need these things, although they're not out of reach technically, it just needs a company willing to put them all into a camera, and Panasonic has a track record of that.

Sounds good. I think having magnification to check focus when recording as well as more accurate battery levels would be a great help. GH5s low light at least.

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For me the number one biggest problem with the gh5 is the complex menu system. I find myself fiddling with settings even after I have customized all the buttons and C dial options. And when I’m shooting there’s always this thing in my head that is wondering if I got everything right. 

The amazing UI of the P4K is literally one of the main reasons I choose it over the gh5. It’s perfectly simple. No guess work. 

I don’t think it’ll happen but I wish Panasonic would work on this for both the gh and s series cameras. Something maybe like the new Sigma camera even.

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2 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

For me the number one biggest problem with the gh5 is the complex menu system. I find myself fiddling with settings even after I have customized all the buttons and C dial options. And when I’m shooting there’s always this thing in my head that is wondering if I got everything right. 

The amazing UI of the P4K is literally one of the main reasons I choose it over the gh5. It’s perfectly simple. No guess work. 

I don’t think it’ll happen but I wish Panasonic would work on this for both the gh and s series cameras. Something maybe like the new Sigma camera even.

It's complicated, absolutely, but that's why there are the custom modes.  The P4K let's you change settings really easily, but to me you wouldn't need to change those settings that often, except if you were changing shooting scenarios, which is where the C modes on the GH5 come into play.

I have C1 set to normal 5K shooting (5K 4:3 25p), C2 set for normal 4K shooting (4K 16:9 25p), and C3 as the slow motion modes, with C3-1 as 4K50, and C3-2 as 1080 120fps.  I have the buttons and dials setup how I want them and so just shoot, only having to pay attention to focus and exposure, which are mapped to the same controls on all profiles.

I literally just set the dial to which lens choice I want, turn on the camera, set the mode dial to the shooting mode I want, and then shoot.  To go from shooting 24p to shooting 120fps on the P4K would require changing the resolution, frame rate and shutter, but is one click of a dial on the GH5 if you've set it up already.  

It's funny you say that you're always wondering if you got everything right, but I use the C modes because I know that I won't get everything right in the moment but programmed it well so I don't have to worry :) 

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6 hours ago, kye said:

I literally just set the dial to which lens choice I want, turn on the camera, set the mode dial to the shooting mode I want, and then shoot.  To go from shooting 24p to shooting 120fps on the P4K would require changing the resolution, frame rate and shutter, but is one click of a dial on the GH5 if you've set it up already.  

To be fair to the P4K, its Preset function does store many more of those complete camera setups (12 as opposed to 3) that you can switch to easily enough off the touch screen.

They can also have meaningful names attached to them such as "Slow mo" or "Indoor Interview" or whatever so its a bit more intuitive than having to remember what the generic C modes mean.

They can also be imported/exported from any of your attached media which is useful for sharing between multi camera setups.

Against that, you don't have the comfort factor of being able to quickly reference which setting you are using by glancing at the top panel like you do with a Panasonic.

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5 hours ago, kye said:

It's funny you say that you're always wondering if you got everything right, but I use the C modes because I know that I won't get everything right in the moment but programmed it well so I don't have to worry :) 

I use the c modes too. But one little change and I have to either re save it or fiddle with that change each time I start up the camera. Either of those options is a hassle for me. As much as I love the camera, and I do love it, I feel like it is working against me. The P4K on the other hand is a pleasure to use. 

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