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Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!


Andrew Reid
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@jonpais

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But many mistakenly believe they should be shooting V-Log when shooting Cinelike D would be better. V-Log is not the be all and end all for every situation.

In our nowadays (social bullshit driven) lunacy society, general experience, facts and pure common sense are no longer respected: "Monkey see, monkey do". Without any feeling for special circumstances (lighting, etc.) required in every single scene. The gearhead driven brigade likes "global solutions": One single profile shooting, then applying a quick lut on it, get ready...

Real deep education and self criticism are not the strongest skills of militant gearheads, driven by ignorance, inexperience and ugly, "LUT-centered" mentality. If "other guys" shoot in X-log, they do it too - Monkey see, monkey do. Even if it looks like shit. It's a kind of mass desaster, having nothing to do with artistic aspects. Unbalanced BS colors and violation of elementary visual principles have nothing to do with art. This is NOT an artistic choice, it's a result of an uneducated and unreflected, superficial crowd, just trying to copy & paste assumed success methods.

The bad thing is. It doesn't work, as long as you don't know what you do. Great visual masters don't have standard methods, settings or luts for shooting in different scenarios. They try to apply individualized methods to every single scene or circumstance.

BTW: I've tried this too. It didn't work for me - and THIS is good news...:astonished:

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54 minutes ago, Arikhan said:

Monkey see, monkey do.

Emulation is the initial step into developing craft.  As it is with all endeavors that are creative.  How artistic one is able to make things depends on the individual.  Still, we all need a grasp of the craft to make the art.  

Some are good at it.  Others?  Not so much.  Nothing new in that regard.  This is why blogs about camera gear are far more traffic'ed than places where creative things are discussed.  It's easy to dabble in the craft of things.  Being truly creative and interesting is ridiculously hard-- not to mention emotionally vulnerable if you're doing it honestly.

The "craft-vs-art-mix" is why I lean to making docs rather than narrative.  I like to think I understand my abilities and limitations and angle my efforts in directions that are more appropriate for me.

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@Orangenz So it’s ok for Jon to state his opinion without any images and not even having the camera, but I have to show proof?

Jon didn’t mention the GH5 and neither did I in my reply to him. I was talking in general with my experience with Panasonic cameras. And as many others have stated before me they are getting better color when underexposing a little bit. Not better DR, not better noise performance but color. This is my experience as well but I have not done any extensive testing.

Both @kidzrevill and Shane has done extensive testing and I agree with their findings. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but you should accept that there are different opinions on this subject, and if you believe ETTR is the only way then please do a test like Shane did and post it here.

@jonpais v-log should off course only be used when you the time to do it properly.

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1 hour ago, fuzzynormal said:

Emulation is the initial step into developing craft.  As it is with all endeavors that are creative.  How artistic one is able to make things depends on the individual.  Still, we all need a grasp of the craft to make the art.  

Some are good at it.  Others?  Not so much.  Nothing new in that regard.  This is why blogs about camera gear are far more traffic'ed than places where creative things are discussed.  It's easy to dabble in the craft of things.  Being truly creative and interesting is ridiculously hard-- not to mention emotionally vulnerable if you're doing it honestly.

The "craft-vs-art-mix" is why I lean to making docs rather than narrative.  I like to think I understand my abilities and limitations and angle my efforts in directions that are more appropriate for me.

There's a big difference between emulation and what passes for gospel in the forums. Which is why I always encourage readers to first consider the work of those handing out free advice, and secondly, to do their own tests. 

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Using the GH5 for quite a bit of photography and some little video clips. Using it with a combination of the (really great) Voigtländer 17.5mm f/0.95, Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 and the Samyang 35mm f/1.4 & 85mm f/1.4 both on a dumb adapter and a focal reducer.

My personal opinion: it's maybe one of the least emotional/passion inducing cameras I ever had, I don't feel any excitement about it... but... it's probably the most usable camera I ever had. Can 100% approve and would recommend to 95% of all DSLR/MILC users without hesitation if asked. It doesn't have mind blowing dynamic range, the low light is just ok, the colors are good but not Fuji good, it's comically big for a camera with such a small sensor. But it just is very well thought out (nothing is perfect). The swively screen, high quality EVF, touch screen works well, WiFi function very usable, AF-S perfectly fine for my photography uses, focus peaking & magnification very well implemented, rather good battery run time (eh, I come from Sony!). I had none of the issues people complain about on the internet so maybe I'm just lucky. 

OG2hHwW.jpg


I think the only drawback is the native lens system if you come from an APS-C / FullFrame system with a good choice of fast native lenses and are completely set on that look.

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@Fredrik Lyhne @fuzzynormal For the longest time, I believed shooting Natural profile with all the settings dialed down to -5, buying  adapted lenses and expensive speed boosters, and using LUTs was the secret to getting that elusive 'film look'. Why? Because that's what everyone in the forums suggested. Later, I found out that native glass is often better, and that Cinelike D has greater dynamic range and better color, at least in my experience: which anyone who wants to compare, can check out my YT channel or blog. The same goes for underexposure: I'd been taught to believe that you have to protect the highlights and lift shadows in post, even though that is often not advisable. And the instant I post my findings, arrived at through my own extensive shooting, a vocal minority with very little work to show is quick to disagree. I've already shared many examples of Cinelike D, ETTR and tests comparing a number of m43 lenses as well as adapted glass; and if I have to, I'll get my hands on a GH5 if that's what's necessary to prove what should be obvious. And once more, unless we can see the original clips, and preferably some scopes, we can't be 100% sure what's underexposed, what's white balanced correctly in the first place. 

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3 hours ago, Arikhan said:

@jonpais

In our nowadays (social bullshit driven) lunacy society, general experience, facts and pure common sense are no longer respected: "Monkey see, monkey do". Without any feeling for special circumstances (lighting, etc.) required in every single scene. The gearhead driven brigade likes "global solutions": One single profile shooting, then applying a quick lut on it, get ready...

Real deep education and self criticism are not the strongest skills of militant gearheads, driven by ignorance, inexperience and ugly, "LUT-centered" mentality. If "other guys" shoot in X-log, they do it too - Monkey see, monkey do. Even if it looks like shit. It's a kind of mass desaster, having nothing to do with artistic aspects. Unbalanced BS colors and violation of elementary visual principles have nothing to do with art. This is NOT an artistic choice, it's a result of an uneducated and unreflected, superficial crowd, just trying to copy & paste assumed success methods.

The bad thing is. It doesn't work, as long as you don't know what you do. Great visual masters don't have standard methods, settings or luts for shooting in different scenarios. They try to apply individualized methods to every single scene or circumstance.

BTW: I've tried this too. It didn't work for me - and THIS is good news...:astonished:

Nothing to say about the GH5, but really about your post....and your monkey see monkey do comment (spot on!!!)...there is a weird kind of Hive Mind mentality at work these days...I see this both in politics and as a frequent visitor to forums....members claim to be merely expressing their opinions, but in reality it's the same tired phrases being repeated over and over...hardly an original thought being expressed and in the case of the GH5, both a well loved and hated camera it seems excessively obvious...but what's also more obvious, is that we increasingly act like a herd of sheep stuck in some corner...bumping into each other...mulling the same thing over and over as if it came from us, as an original thought...now THAT would be an opininion...but THIS... is this loneliness?....is it a complete lack of intellectual curiosity... what it's not at allabout, is about cameras....@mattiasburling just posted a very interesting guess the camera thread and really nobody had a clue about the camera...so why the same old tired refrain that would be laughed off any movie set?...I really have no clue...

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1 hour ago, jonpais said:

...\protect the highlights and lift shadows in post...though that is often not advisable.

Yeah, with the GX85, there's a lot of good info in the highlights.  FWIW, I just expose "normal" and take it from there.

1 hour ago, Phil A said:

personal opinion: it's maybe one of the least emotional/passion inducing cameras I ever had, I don't feel any excitement about it... but... it's probably the most usable camera I ever had.

I like it okay too.  For me, it's not the most useable camera I've had, but it's solid and will get the job done.  It's a truck: utilitarian and incredibly useful.  Sportscars are more fun to drive, sure, but you can't haul a load of wood in 'em.  Sometimes, if not most times, you just need to haul wood.

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5 hours ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

@jonpais I think it's a little more complicated than that. What really matters is what you expose for, skin tones, skies etc. And it's really difficult to get it spot on without a light meter and a monitor as Curtis mentions in the video. It's a lot harder to expose v-log than cine D with just the camera. 

I mess up the exposure to often when I shoot, but I agree with @kidzrevil that the colors look better when they are slightly underexposed, and corrected in post. 

You've probably seen it before but I'm really curios to hear your thoughts on this test by Shane Hurlbut? 

http://www.thehurlblog.com/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh4-vlog-l-latitude-test-cinematography-education/

 

 

Thanks for posting this. It's interesting to see exactly how he came to those conclusions. When you have controlled lighting, definitely worth thinking about. But that is just one controlled test, would have liked to see his results by performing the same test outside with natural light. 

As is, there seems no reason to doubt his controlled test using a light meter. 

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According to my experience, with (GH4, G80, GX80, GH5)  Expose maximum to 0 ,but mostly better slightly negative, If even slightly overexposed the colors disappear and the predominant yellow (waxy skin) , and mainly in combination with negative contrast !

 

In this test it is clearly visible, exposure +1 and red from the skin is out !

http://www.thehurlblog.com/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh4-vlog-l-latitude-test-cinematography-education/

my exposure Zebra max. 90% in skin

 

My current setting GH5 :

Cine D    0,-5,-5,-5, 0

iDynamic : standard

WB : Auto A:5 M:4 

and 0 and mostly slightly negative exposure.

Panasonic and ETTR It does not fit me, sorry...

 

Before that I had the Sony, and that ETTR was ideal.  (a6000, a5100, A7S , a6300)

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9 hours ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

@Orangenz So it’s ok for Jon to state his opinion without any images and not even having the camera, but I have to show proof?

Jon didn’t mention the GH5 and neither did I in my reply to him. I was talking in general with my experience with Panasonic cameras. And as many others have stated before me they are getting better color when underexposing a little bit. Not better DR, not better noise performance but color. This is my experience as well but I have not done any extensive testing.

Both @kidzrevill and Shane has done extensive testing and I agree with their findings. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but you should accept that there are different opinions on this subject, and if you believe ETTR is the only way then please do a test like Shane did and post it here.

@jonpais v-log should off course only be used when you the time to do it properly.

So you're just making stuff up? Waste of space. And then you resort to strawman arguments. You probably are kidz for all I know. 

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11 hours ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

I mess up the exposure to often when I shoot, but I agree with @kidzrevil that the colors look better when they are slightly underexposed, and corrected in post. 

You've probably seen it before but I'm really curios to hear your thoughts on this test by Shane Hurlbut? 

http://www.thehurlblog.com/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh4-vlog-l-latitude-test-cinematography-education/

 

 

I agree with Shane's findings now that I am more clear as to what he's actually testing. As he raises exposure you can see how the skin color is shifting. Maybe the camera sensor can only handle a certain amount of light ? Maybe the curve of the picture profile (especially v log) is designed in a way where it loses saturation when exposed a certain way ? Idk exactly what it is but what I do know after testing extensively is that 1/3 - 2/3 underexposure at the lowest possible iso for each scene yields great color with no need to boost shadows in post. Im going to sunny california on the 15th so I will have a bunch of tests 

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I think log profile tend to flavor over exposure while non log profile prefer 0, when I shoot with Sony using normal profile (ie not slog) I try to shoot at 0ev or slight under, its quite ugly on the skin tone if over exposed. 

Here is an example on C100 between standard and log, you loose 2 stops(?) with log profile

c100 standard.jpg

c100 clog.jpg

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17 hours ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

Jon didn’t mention the GH5 and neither did I in my reply to him. I was talking in general with my experience with Panasonic cameras. And as many others have stated before me they are getting better color when underexposing a little bit. Not better DR, not better noise performance but color. This is my experience as well but I have not done any extensive testing.

I am by no means experienced in the department of grading, but my last 3-4 videos or so i underexposed with -2/3 and I love the results I am getting. However I also have to conclude that my GX80 is sometimes overexposing, so turning it down by -2/3 makes the zebras go disappear in the highlights area.

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2 hours ago, jase said:

I am by no means experienced in the department of grading, but my last 3-4 videos or so i underexposed with -2/3 and I love the results I am getting. However I also have to conclude that my GX80 is sometimes overexposing, so turning it down by -2/3 makes the zebras go disappear in the highlights area.

 

I do that when in bright sun light filming docstyle. Autoshutter and -1/2 to -2/3 underexposure with 95% zebra.

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21 minutes ago, jase said:

so what? I am using auto-shutter all the time. Do you notice it in my videos? Well, I dont - which is good for me, I am apparently easier to please :)

I think he was being a grammar nazi, rather than an auto shutter nazi 

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1 hour ago, jase said:

so what? I am using auto-shutter all the time. Do you notice it in my videos? Well, I dont - which is good for me, I am apparently easier to please :)

To be honest, I do notice it, and you should, too. The images stutter. Not that I don't like your videos.

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