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Sony a6300 4k

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30 minutes ago, JurijTurnsek said:

I believe you guys are dissecting this consumer camera way harder than an average user will. Once the price falls down to a more reasonable level (like A6000), these cams will be picked up by thousands of causal users like me - shooting photos and videos of your family and pets, usually clips shorter than 10 mins, documenting your travels, using high FPS sparingly etc. They (us) won't care about RS and overheating - IQ out of the box is key here.

Sony already caters to professionals with many models, so having this cheap option is just a bonus.

One of the problems is that this consumer camera has features that not some but all more expensive large sensor Sony cameras are lacking. Like decent AF. It will likely propagate up eventually, but it certainly can be a cause of frustration: putting it in a camera that fails spectacularly in other areas. And this does reinforce the image of Sony never being able to do everything right, there is always user frustration coupled with their technical inovations.

The fact that this is a photo camera in the first place doesn't really help much on video related forums. :)

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
26 minutes ago, araucaria said:

Cool story bro,but it doesn't make the rolling shutter or overheating any better (for those who care, like the posters on this forum).

My point being, that it will sell a ton irregardless of the conclusions of posters on this forums. Your voice is the minority. Your opinion is being taken into account for FS5, since you are the intended user group.

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1 minute ago, JurijTurnsek said:

My point being, that it will sell a ton irregardless of the conclusions of posters on this forums. Your voice is the minority. Your opinion is being taken into account for FS5, since you are the intended user group.

Thanks for the info.

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21 minutes ago, cpc said:

The fact that this is a photo camera in the first place doesn't really help much on video related forums. :)

Well EOSHD has always been about both photo and video in one camera body, so I think it helps. The vast majority here will use a mirrorless camera instead of an expensive dedicated video camera like the FS5 or C300.

And since the two are converging - stills and video - you're in the right place to talk about the future.

It is frustrating that the FS5 doesn't have the latest AF innovations, since it costs 5x what one A6300 does and was released just a few months earlier.

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1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

Well EOSHD has always been about both photo and video in one camera body, so I think it helps. The vast majority here will use a mirrorless camera instead of an expensive dedicated video camera like the FS5 or C300.

And since the two are converging - stills and video - you're in the right place to talk about the future.

It is frustrating that the FS5 doesn't have the latest AF innovations, since it costs 5x what one A6300 does and was released just a few months earlier.

Yeah, but this is us and our wishful thinking. Sony people probably still see this as a photo camera with video added in. If they were positioning it as a hybrid (like A7s/A7s2) it would be a 12-16mp camera and wouldn't have these RS issues which the excessive pixel counts bring (and would likely cost a bit more). But it is still possible that they release such a hybrid.

Not sure how Sony operates but my understanding is that photo and video divisions are separate. Hopefully they aren't THAT separate though so that features move in both directions. I'd certainly love an FS5 II with great AF and IBIS. Or an A7s III with electronic ND and great AF.

 

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Just now, JurijTurnsek said:

My point being, that it will sell a ton irregardless of the conclusions of posters on this forums. Your voice is the minority. Your opinion is being taken into account for FS5, since you are the intended user group.

They put two S-Log profiles in, if they were marketing it purely to casual users, this would be a terrible decision. In fact, if they didn't want to broaden the reach of the sucessor to the best selling mirrorless of all time, then they wouldn't have included a lot of the features they did and priced it at least £200 cheaper.

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6 minutes ago, cpc said:

Yeah, but this is us and our wishful thinking. Sony people probably still see this as a photo camera with video added in. If they were positioning it as a hybrid (like A7s/A7s2) it would be a 12-16mp camera and wouldn't have these RS issues which the excessive pixel counts bring (and would likely cost a bit more). But it is still possible that they release such a hybrid.

Not sure how Sony operates but my understanding is that photo and video divisions are separate. Hopefully they aren't THAT separate though so that features move in both directions. I'd certainly love an FS5 II with great AF and IBIS. Or an A7s III with electronic ND and great AF.

 

The A7s is just up there with the worst offenders regarding rolling shutter. Which is somewhat surprising.

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6 minutes ago, Phil A said:

The A7s is just up there with the worst offenders regarding rolling shutter. Which is somewhat surprising.

A7s is actually really nice RS-wise in APS-C mode (similar to 5dm3, which does binning). And it is still full readout of the 1.5x crop area, so it's also pretty good in terms of aliasing.

FF puts a lot of stress on the system cause there are infrastructure problems to resolve which depend on sensor area. FF will always have more RS than APS-C which will have more RS than smaller sizes (like 1") for the same number of pixels.

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Damn... Im still torn if i want or NEED this camera...I have two canon dslr and 1 pro panasonic 4k video camera.. This camera appeals to me because of the great 4k image, form factor and ability to use some of my canon/sigma lenes... But do i NEED it... is my question.. dont mind me.. just talking to myself..lol

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13 minutes ago, cpc said:

A7s is actually really nice RS-wise in APS-C mode (similar to 5dm3, which does binning). And it is still full readout of the 1.5x crop area, so it's also pretty good in terms of aliasing.

FF puts a lot of stress on the system cause there are infrastructure problems to resolve which depend on sensor area. FF will always have more RS than APS-C which will have more RS than smaller sizes (like 1") for the same number of pixels.

Ok but then you shoot 1080p. The NX1 also has really low RS in 1080p and quite bad one in 4k. I thought we're  talking about shooting in the cameras' best image quality. It's kinda bothering that you have to choose between image quality and rolling shutter.

Nevertheless impressive what they've put into such a small, cheap camera.

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9 hours ago, Michael Ma said:

I'm just gonna guess that rolling shutter and overheating are not issues in 1080p.  And since I shoot in 1080p on the gimbal because I'm actively framing my shots, and only in 4K when I'm doing a slow zoom effect in post on a still shot or a reframe to break up the monotony of a long still shot, I think I can still make this my A camera.

All good in theory except the 1080p mode is soft and not veery good IQ at all in comparison to A7 series 1080p or other cameras (GH4 etc.)


This thread cracks me up reading about rolling shutter being OK as you can use it "stylistically"... You can also use an miniDV camera stylistically, why don't we all get one of those next? 

Sony has tried to cram some great features into an awkward frame and as an end result made some half baked crippled mess. Lets hope the a6300 successor will fix these issues. Should I start a6400 rumours already??? :D 

p.s. I don't understand why Sony doesn't just make their top of the line APS-C camera the same body as an A7ii (like 5D is to 7D). That makes far more sense to me, especially given the people I see who are most interested in it.

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44 minutes ago, tweak said:

All good in theory except the 1080p mode is soft and not veery good IQ at all in comparison to A7 series 1080p or other cameras (GH4 etc.)


This thread cracks me up reading about rolling shutter being OK as you can use it "stylistically"... You can also use an miniDV camera stylistically, why don't we all get one of those next? 

Sony has tried to cram some great features into an awkward frame and as an end result made some half baked crippled mess. Lets hope the a6300 successor will fix these issues. Should I start a6400 rumours already??? :D 

p.s. I don't understand why Sony doesn't just make their top of the line APS-C camera the same body as an A7ii (like 5D is to 7D). That makes far more sense to me, especially given the people I see who are most interested in it.

It is going to be a7000, and you can't have everything for the 1/3 of the A7r/s II price, at least not before the A7 series offers a lot more (they are never going to cost less than 3000$, new I mean). It is obviously an a6000 with better "insides". Whoever wants this for a B cam, will buy it eventually (almost all the A7/FS oweners) but the real money are in to the people that will buy a6300 instead of a6000, and they want/prefer this form factor (to compete with other APS-C/m4/3 cameras), and why not?

There never will be "a camera to rule them all", especially for 500$ that we all hope, NX1 and NX500 were close when they were out 18/12 months ago and noone bought them.

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Just now, tweak said:

This thread cracks me up reading about rolling shutter being OK as you can use it "stylistically"...

That's not at all what I said. After providing one specific example which answered a specific question, I said "but in general, you want to try to minimise it"

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@ Dayraven, the fact that people were discussing that notion in an attempt to somehow rationalise the horrendous rolling shutter performance (in the off chance that they purchased the cam) is funny enough for me. I'm sure no-one in their right mind really thinks it's "OK" ;) .

@Kisaha, I agree you can't have it all for a super low price. What I'm talking about is a premium APS-C sensor camera offering, in an A7 package. I'm sure there's a market for this. Lets see if the a7000 comes out soon and what it looks like.

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I probably use camera a lot differently than most, but for wildlife photography/videography this camera has its flaws but for the most part meets my needs. The rolling shutter is bad at 24p but tolerable at 30p. The cropping is a bit stronger at 30p but not a big deal. I typically shoot at long mm, so extra crop ain't bad. Has anyone tried the digital zoom? Between 1x and 2x there is no degradation that I can see. What a great feature. Most of my clips are just for a few minutes at most, so no worries with overheating.

And it works pretty darn good for stills with longer mm lenses. I can't wait to try it with Sigma's MC-11 adapter and the Sigma 150-600mm.

I have thought about getting the 1DX Mark II, but it would be a pain in the A$$ to use the back display in sunny, outdoor conditions. An EVF is much better and I can keep the camera steadier by holding it up to my face rather from afar looking at the back screen. I guess I could get a hood for it, but seems like a pain.

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@Kisaha, I agree you can't have it all for a super low price. What I'm talking about is a premium APS-C sensor camera offering, in an A7 package. I'm sure there's a market for this. Lets see if the a7000 comes out soon and what it looks like.

Actually you have the camera you want, with the option to go full frame too, if you feel like it, it is the A7Rii. Plus you get IBIS (it sounds like it is something really bad!).

The a7000 will come eventually, because you can't have a camera at this segment of the market with no touchscreen, as we said the masses is the market for this camera, and the masses want touchscreens (and I do, things are so much easier) but Sony will need at least a couple of years to do so (R&D is focused on the full frames for the foreseeable future, and they have to sell out all the new a6300es, and touchscreen do not come with firmware updates), and so we go back to those NX cameras I mentioned earlier..

NX1 1080p -------- 7.9 ms      NX1 4K ---------- 30.9 ms 

a6300 1080p24 --- 15.2 ms  a6300 4K 24fps -- 39.0 ms

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6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Red One as well. And I think the Scarlet is RS.

There's this one movie shot with the Red One (Gamer, starring Gerard Butler) and it has HUGE amounts of rolling shutter in it's action scenes. High shutter speed does not help. I really disliked that aspect of it.

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Hi,

Can anyone confirm if 25p 4K is cropped or not and if so, is the rolling shutter improved over 24P?

Does anyone know the rolling shutter number for 30p 4k?

Finally, is the camera switchable from NTSC to PAL and vice versa?

Thanks!

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majoraxis, Andrew confirmed few pages earlier that there is no crop in 25p, therefore RS should be slightly worse. If we assume it scales linear with number of pixels needs to be read it should be worse by 1/24=4.2%. If we take baseline to be 39ms this would give 40.6ms.

In case of 30p from sample videos I estimated relative crop to be 1.225, correcting by higher frame rate gives (30/24)/1.225^2=0.83 factor. With the same 39ms baseline it would give 32.5ms.

 

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