ade towell

Good luck with that micro hdmi connection

With proper IR filter the BM cameras produce wonderful colour. You should do your research and hire crew that know what they're doing 

You don't half talk some bollocks

It is so well documented that BM cameras need IR filter I find it hard to believe any person working in the industry is not aware of this. It is down to you to hire crew who know what they are doing if you haven't a clue yourself

6 minutes ago, padam said:

Canon's way is to release a separate video-centric camera with active cooling and a dedicated sensor that will run for many hours without issues. It won't be a usable stills camera.

We just don't know when and for how much but looking at the XC15, it is certainly possible to design something like that with a bigger sensor and an RF-mount.

Canon's way has always been to release reliable solid cameras. What is this camera you speak of, are you guessing or is it being worked on now?

17 minutes ago, padam said:

First, the basher group needs to provide counter-examples to prove that Canon's engineers are "being lazy". We can all agree that keeping a powerful IBIS and DPAF system fully operating, while decoding masses of data to memory cards means the camera's processing really takes a beating.

Yes, we have the FF S1 series that cope well with heat. But they are a lot bigger and heavier and they stick to using contrast-detect AF, that probably helps with the processing power.
They rely more on using external recorders to unlock all features.
There is also a crop on the 4k60p video, too and a 24MP stills camera is not the same as a 45MP stills camera with a much more powerful AF system.

Once we see more cameras that do provide what the R5 and R6 are capable of (for both photo as well as video), we will probably see the overheating rear its ugly head as well. That's probably the reality of it.

In the past Canon has designed their cameras for a longer product cycle. That means they are confident that they won't suddenly get left behind by other future cameras and they might employ other tricks to help with these issues, look at this one for instance:

https://www.canonnews.com/canon-patent-application-canon-ef-to-rf-sensor-cooling-adapter

(although I think this is probably more for astrophotography rather than recording high-res video)

I'm not accusing Canon of being lazy I just want them to release a product I can rely on to get me through a day of filming. Instead of trying to overtake everybody else with something unreliable why not just play catch up 1st and give us something with solid 4k 10 bit that will work in every mode, and let their AF and nice colour do the talking to the zillions of Canon lens owners who will buy whatever they release anyway

I hope as you say this isn't the new norm with cameras overheating as they all try and out do each other. That would suck

1 hour ago, Django said:

@ade towell There are two ways of looking at this, glass half-empty or half-full. Andrew made a good post about this: https://www.eoshd.com/8k/a-closer-look-at-the-canon-eos-r5-lower-quality-4k-mode-to-avoid-thermal-cut-off/

R5/R6 can be used without overheating issues. If you want maximum performance (which no other hybrid camera can currently give you) well you are prone to thermal cut off limits and high RS. I think it's a fair trade-off situation and Canon are being open about it as opposed to Sony.

Concerning the R6 4K crop, it is of x1.07. It apparently takes a 4K DCI image and truncates it to UHD. No biggie.

As for the S1H being a better hybrid video camera, that is subjective. The poor AF and weight (1Kg vs 680g) makes it a no go for me personally and if you want FF no crop 4K60p in 10-bit.. only R6 will give you that. But of course YMMV.

 

It is indeed subjective and that's cool, and I won't bore you with all the reasons the SH1 is a better video camera to me. I just find it interesting that all Canon fans seem to be OK about these limitations and don't see an issue with overheating in cameras being released at these prices in 2020. Instead they seek to justify it or cherry pick all the other stuff

I still have a Canon camera and lenses but don't feel the need to defend them when they release cameras that can't be relied upon in many working environments, which I have to say is something I never thought they would do. They used to be so reassuringly conservative. I congratulate them on finally stepping up and pushing the tech, but they should have made the camera body able to cope with it. Not give excuses

26 minutes ago, Django said:

R6 will overheat in 4K60p after 30-40mn & in 4K30p after 40-50mn (depending on FF/S35 modes).

Shouldn't be any overheating issues in 4K24p/25p.

Let's just remember we're talking FF no crop oversampled 4K60p with DPAF in 10-bit 4:2:2 internal.

In comparison, the only hybrid camera on the market that can get close to that is the almost twice more expensive S1H which can only do 4K60p with a S35 crop in 10-bit 4:2:0 longGOP and poor contrast AF... and that camera has active cooling on board!

Still a bit disappointing though no? At least for me being able to film without worry of overheating is one of the most important things

I thought the R6 had bit of a crop in all 4k modes?

The S1H is £3600 the R6 £2500 here in the UK but I get your point. I think the R6 has a lot going for it but there are many ways in which the S1H is a better camera at least for video

1 hour ago, Yurolov said:

I mean the fact is no other mirrorless camera gives you full frame 8k, 4k 120p, 60p, or 8k oversampled 30p. The mere fact that you can use these settings is a great accomplishment, cause you can't use them with any other mirrorless. I'd rather have then as an option than not have them at all. I can shoot all day in standard 4k 30p mode and mix it in with some hfr modes if I want. 

To all those saying, ye but it's not worth the price...well the market will decide what it is worth. Again you don't get any of these options in any other mirrorless. 8 stops, dual pixel, uncropped 4k, flippy screen, 10 bit internal, etc etc.  

The constant moaning and complaining is unnecessary. Just compare this to the way the xt4 was treated. Apparently that camera is perfect despite having crap ibis where you can't pan and unreliable autofocus (people had to turn to YouTube and Philip bloom for that info). 

So it overheats in certain modes. Don't worry, you will be fine, it's not the end of the world. 

You seem to be taking the critique of an inanimate object way too personally. Concerns about over heating and rolling shutter are fairly reasonable for a camera costing £4200. This is 2020 and it feels like we're going backwards in some ways. Amazing tech in a body that can't handle it is nothing new, although very un Canon like. I feel the chasing of headline 8k raw has created a great concept camera that isn't reliable and has compromised the more important 4k which I would argue is the most useful resolution for the majority of people.

Feels a bit petty having a dig at another much cheaper camera over supposed preferential treatment.

Yes I was only half joking really - I love manual focus I feel it puts me much more in the scene. Until only a few years ago it was all part of basic camera skills 101, so it's funny when I hear people won't go near certain cameras now because they can't rely on AF. Am not sure how they managed to work in video production before, reliable AF has only really become a thing in the last 3 or 4 years. There are of course times when it can be handy and yes I miss focus occasionally but then so does the camera and when it does I've seen it go bat shit crazy (this was with a Canon C200)

I realise this makes me sound like an old man and sorry Logan wasn't singling you out it just made me chuckle

5 minutes ago, Logan said:

My biggest takeaway from all of this is that there are *always* trade offs.  The S1H would be my perfect camera if it had real AF functionality. The XT4 would be my perfect camera if it had unlimited record times and internal 422 10bit. The Canons would be perfect if they had unlimited recording and no overheating. 
 

🤷‍♂️

The only one you can do anything about is learn how to focus, then you can buy the S1H 😀

Sorry bad joke...

3 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

The the act of just inserting a cable will eventually break that stupid port. So be careful.

Yes you will break it eventually however careful you are. Is my least favourite thing on the XT3, even with smallrig cage and clamp it has finally given up on me

Of all the cameras already mentioned that also take photos and fit your budget, the Fuji XT3 wipes the floor with the rest if video is important to you (imo). It doesn't have IBIS though

Possible pros for SH1`- can film for as long as you want in any mode and no annoying 30 minute limit, full size hdmi is a biggie for me, those micro hdmi are a nightmare. DR looks to be better from what I have seen and read, RS is likely to be better, recording media cheaper, camera is £600 cheaper in the UK, integrated audio  xlr adaptor available, anamorphic modes

Possible pros for R5 - AF, internal RAW at 8k if you can handle it, 4k 120p in small doses (both these have an overheating risk), 4k 50p full frame, smaller lighter body

IBIS on both looks good but will only really find out with R5 when it's been properly tested by independent non Canon reps

6 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

We pay sales tax in most states here. 5-8% depending where you live. 
 

Watched Peters video. Footage looked way better than Canons live feed.

I seem a bit of artifacts in 4k120p but that is acceptable.

4K 24p looked very nice. Stabilization looked really, really good.

Very tempting. Sony, ball is in your court.

My beef is with the pricing not the camera itself - I know you can avoid tax in lots of the U.S. by buying from a different state.

I don't understand why Canon has priced this at £4200 here in the UK when it is $3900 in the U.S (£3082). That is a huge difference. 

In comparison the Panasonic S1H is £3600 in the UK, $4000 in the U.S. (£3162). Still paying more here in the UK but not such a huge difference

yes the price is ridiculous in the UK too, £4,200 whereas in the U.S. it's $3800 which works out to £3000. Horrible

fuji xt-3 used are going very cheap at the moment, amazing video and photos, pick up the excellent 18-55 and a prime or 2 and you're set

9 hours ago, Super8 said:

DP's that use it miss the proper DOF that gives you the proper cinematic look.

You really are a clown, or are you trolling... hard to tell with the amount of crap you constantly come out with

14 hours ago, Snowbro said:

@Andrew Reid I hear that the 1DX III has 12 stops of dynamic range in RAW. Canon USA replied to my question in their video & said that it is 12 stops in RAW. From what I understand, regular CLOG can get around 12 stops, but CLOG 2 can get up to 15 stops or so (canon claimed) on certain sensors. I saw a few videos where people putting the 1DX III footage into Resolve and it automatically converts it to CLOG 2, which they say has helped them get better DR than using Canons tool. 

So what do you believe? Can it get more than 12 stops in RAW with resolve? Or does this camera have a few less stops of DR vs a C200/300 etc? I wish cinema5d would test it on their new system, the pocket 6k gets 11.9 stops of DR or something like that. I wonder if this 1DX RAW is similar or better. 

From the looks of it the DR on the 1DXmk3 is a bit less than the Panasonic S1H which was measured at 12.7 stops DR by Cinema 5d. This was using 10 bit log on the Panasonic compared to RAW on the Canon - will be interesting to see  if the upcoming RAW update will increase the S1H's DR even more

Sorry bad terminology, so there's no drop in quality when using it say in 4k 25p?

Wondering if the 1.29 crop you are able to turn on for all modes is a digital zoom or if there is no quality hit from filming normal aps-c? Be a useful tele extension for all lenses if so

yes no motor noise on the f2 primes or 18-55mm or 16-55mm or 55-200mm. There may well be others I haven't tried...

http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_158948319373013&key=8bcacfaa034c0b4a66a6e2547b5154f2&libId=ka756zak01000axm000DAfsiapj86&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dvxuser.com%2FV6%2Fshowthread.php%3F366672-Canon-R5-Announced-with-8k%2Fpage25&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.canonwatch.com%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dvxuser.com%2FV6%2Fsearch.php%3Fsearchid%3D22790698&title=Canon R5 Announced with 8k - Page 25&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.canonwatch.com%2F

It's only a rumour but the R5 has been listed at the equivalent of over $6k on an Australian retail site

That price doesn't surprise me but a lot of folk here seem to suggest it was going to be about $4k. Seems like it could be quite a camera but wonder who here would still get it if it was indeed $6k? 

All sounds about right, a shame as not interested in an 8 bit camera and I'm not willing to pay the premium for a stills camera with a RAW feature I don't really want when I can get a proper video camera used for about the same price. 

Is a bit like the C200 conundrum for me, 8 bit is not enough, RAW too much for my needs, just give me a decent 10 bit.

Will stick with the Fuji XT3 

Thanks for all the feedback - really hope this is something Fuji can fix in firmware. Am still loving the XT3 and it looks amazing with my old Canon fd lenses, just would love to be able to use them handheld without always having to add mass to the camera to reduce shake. It's a want rather than a need though, not a great time to be thinking of new camera investment  

Have seen the warping thing on ultra wide lenses even with the GH5 which has great IBIS,  I wonder how wide you have to go before it starts appearing on the xt4?  IBIS is not so important on really wide lenses