ade towell

That sounds like a good deal. The XT3 is no slouch as a stills camera too. Maybe get the 18-55mm 2.8-4 and a prime or too within your budget, sell your m43 lenses and adapt your Nikon

For video definitely not

Yes this is my dilemma, would be pretty frustrating spending £4200 and not being able to trust the higher quality modes, don't see the point. If you're only shooting very short sequences fair enough but not for me

8 hours ago, Super8 said:

Why is @John Brawley being pushed on us so much across the EOS and the net today?  I thought real DP's don't hang out on the EOS?

The proof will be in the footage not how technical someone talks about the NEW sensor.     

Let @John Brawley compare the BM12K to Alexa, RED and Venice and see if it falls apart.  How much you wanna bet he never does that test?

I really don't need a BM cheerleader to push their cameras.

 

Your ignorance is overwhelming. And I thought you were a real DP the way you big yourself up in that hot air way of yours

John Brawley uses BM cameras with Alexa all the time on real sets on big productions. Check out this recent thread for example on dvxuser, the guy is a fountain of knowledge

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?367345-John-Brawley-s-quot-The-Great-quot-on-Hulu&highlight=brawley

It's definitely going to give RED a run for its money. That you can film in so many different resolutions of BRAW is huge ,there's even 6k super 16 mode for documentary type stuff

But I love that they're thinking out of the box and giving something new, why create what every body else is 

I said it in the other thread which is now getting a bit fractious but I think they're going for RED's market

Yes I think the hi res BRAW in this camera is going to be much more useful and workable than the huge 8k RAW of the overheating R5. The beauty of being able to shoot at different resolutions in BRAW is genius

apparently it edits very smoothly on 2017 laptops

https://vimeo.com/436209544

RS figures sound amazing, JB says RS is 15ms at 12k and 6ms at 8K.

10 minutes ago, Coiii said:

One thing it's what you prefer and other thing it's what's clients and market prefers. And that's where Canon and Sony are kings. That's why I asked for the market of this camera.

DP/Owner: Sony and Canon are better for rental and are more demanded.

Film/Media: FX9 and C300 are Netflix approved.

Digital/Ads: Alexa/Sony/Canon colors are always preferred.

Slow Motion: Rent a RED/Phantom.

The $10-$15K market it's really hard to just try to entry with a resolution race where most professionals are comfortable shooting 2K/4K, prioritizing image quality against any resolution.

 

I think they're going for RED's market more than anything

4 minutes ago, Coiii said:

Being really honest... What is the market for this camera? 

I mean, if I have $10K to spend  I would definitely put a little more and go for a Sony FX9 with that beautiful full frame/cinetone/AF or maybe for a C300MKIII for Canon colors plus that dual sensor image capture. Or an used Alexa Classic if you're making movies with a crew.

At that price range I think that image quality is the best feature, and blackmagic is behind Canon and Sony at that price range.

And that's not even mentioning the 12K...

I guess it's all subjective but I prefer the image quality of the BM Ursa to the Sony and Canon, it's all the other usability stuff where the Japanese companies excel.

That it can do 4k  6k 8k 12k Raw opens up all kinds of possibilities

JB has said it's not a Bayer sensor and did 12k edit and colour on 2017 laptop

Ah ok thanks for that. Other than the overheating which is well documented the RS and IBIS are the next things that need testing properly, I've seen some weirdness with the IBIS in some footage so this would need proper investigation

The slow mo does look very nice. I thought Clog2 had the high dynamic range, what benefits are Clog3 over standard Clog?

Apologies if this comes across a bit harsh Mr Super 8 but your ridiculous obsession with the gh5 and blaiming of BM cameras on other threads due to your own lack of knowledge, do you no favours I'm afraid. 

I don't think I've acome across anyone who consistently talks as much nonsense as you. Other than maybe your lovely President. 

Still can't tell if its intentional trolling or you actually believe what you are saying. Kind of hope it's the former for your own sake

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but the micro hdmi makes using an external recorder an absolute no in my book. Even with a Smallrig cage and hdmi cable lock and being as careful as possible mine has broken on X-T3. I was only using it for monitoring purposes and could handle it cutting out now and again until it finally died, but if I was relying on the recording it is just not fit for purpose. They are the devils work. Why are Panasonic the only company who seem  to realise this and use full size hdmi

I would worry about that as much as the overheating. Too stressful

Good luck with that micro hdmi connection

With proper IR filter the BM cameras produce wonderful colour. You should do your research and hire crew that know what they're doing 

You don't half talk some bollocks

It is so well documented that BM cameras need IR filter I find it hard to believe any person working in the industry is not aware of this. It is down to you to hire crew who know what they are doing if you haven't a clue yourself

6 minutes ago, padam said:

Canon's way is to release a separate video-centric camera with active cooling and a dedicated sensor that will run for many hours without issues. It won't be a usable stills camera.

We just don't know when and for how much but looking at the XC15, it is certainly possible to design something like that with a bigger sensor and an RF-mount.

Canon's way has always been to release reliable solid cameras. What is this camera you speak of, are you guessing or is it being worked on now?

17 minutes ago, padam said:

First, the basher group needs to provide counter-examples to prove that Canon's engineers are "being lazy". We can all agree that keeping a powerful IBIS and DPAF system fully operating, while decoding masses of data to memory cards means the camera's processing really takes a beating.

Yes, we have the FF S1 series that cope well with heat. But they are a lot bigger and heavier and they stick to using contrast-detect AF, that probably helps with the processing power.
They rely more on using external recorders to unlock all features.
There is also a crop on the 4k60p video, too and a 24MP stills camera is not the same as a 45MP stills camera with a much more powerful AF system.

Once we see more cameras that do provide what the R5 and R6 are capable of (for both photo as well as video), we will probably see the overheating rear its ugly head as well. That's probably the reality of it.

In the past Canon has designed their cameras for a longer product cycle. That means they are confident that they won't suddenly get left behind by other future cameras and they might employ other tricks to help with these issues, look at this one for instance:

https://www.canonnews.com/canon-patent-application-canon-ef-to-rf-sensor-cooling-adapter

(although I think this is probably more for astrophotography rather than recording high-res video)

I'm not accusing Canon of being lazy I just want them to release a product I can rely on to get me through a day of filming. Instead of trying to overtake everybody else with something unreliable why not just play catch up 1st and give us something with solid 4k 10 bit that will work in every mode, and let their AF and nice colour do the talking to the zillions of Canon lens owners who will buy whatever they release anyway

I hope as you say this isn't the new norm with cameras overheating as they all try and out do each other. That would suck

1 hour ago, Django said:

@ade towell There are two ways of looking at this, glass half-empty or half-full. Andrew made a good post about this: https://www.eoshd.com/8k/a-closer-look-at-the-canon-eos-r5-lower-quality-4k-mode-to-avoid-thermal-cut-off/

R5/R6 can be used without overheating issues. If you want maximum performance (which no other hybrid camera can currently give you) well you are prone to thermal cut off limits and high RS. I think it's a fair trade-off situation and Canon are being open about it as opposed to Sony.

Concerning the R6 4K crop, it is of x1.07. It apparently takes a 4K DCI image and truncates it to UHD. No biggie.

As for the S1H being a better hybrid video camera, that is subjective. The poor AF and weight (1Kg vs 680g) makes it a no go for me personally and if you want FF no crop 4K60p in 10-bit.. only R6 will give you that. But of course YMMV.

 

It is indeed subjective and that's cool, and I won't bore you with all the reasons the SH1 is a better video camera to me. I just find it interesting that all Canon fans seem to be OK about these limitations and don't see an issue with overheating in cameras being released at these prices in 2020. Instead they seek to justify it or cherry pick all the other stuff

I still have a Canon camera and lenses but don't feel the need to defend them when they release cameras that can't be relied upon in many working environments, which I have to say is something I never thought they would do. They used to be so reassuringly conservative. I congratulate them on finally stepping up and pushing the tech, but they should have made the camera body able to cope with it. Not give excuses

26 minutes ago, Django said:

R6 will overheat in 4K60p after 30-40mn & in 4K30p after 40-50mn (depending on FF/S35 modes).

Shouldn't be any overheating issues in 4K24p/25p.

Let's just remember we're talking FF no crop oversampled 4K60p with DPAF in 10-bit 4:2:2 internal.

In comparison, the only hybrid camera on the market that can get close to that is the almost twice more expensive S1H which can only do 4K60p with a S35 crop in 10-bit 4:2:0 longGOP and poor contrast AF... and that camera has active cooling on board!

Still a bit disappointing though no? At least for me being able to film without worry of overheating is one of the most important things

I thought the R6 had bit of a crop in all 4k modes?

The S1H is £3600 the R6 £2500 here in the UK but I get your point. I think the R6 has a lot going for it but there are many ways in which the S1H is a better camera at least for video