Gerald just spilled the beans about YT reviews, naming brand and giving examples, etc

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

So if this YouTuber was feeling the financial pressure, then it makes a lot of sense for them to sell the Komodo-X while it still is holding up in value on the secondhand market and instead get a cheap Blackmagic Pyxis. 

You got me curious enough to watch it.

"I'm just gonna sell my Red Komodo-X because this is absolutely fire."

He mentions that it's a cheaper camera near the end, but he really seems to be pumped for the Pyxis.  Like I said, still seems like a weird choice to me - but he's welcome to do what he wants for a camera.
 

 

[Eric Calabros]

What I understand now is that working with these YouTubers is extremely hard and I feel sorry for marketing people of camera brands who have to work with them.

[MrSMW]

The funny thing about all of this for me is that until now, I always thought and said that Lumix didn’t do enough marketing of this nature.

This time they seem to have invited every CC out there…and it’s all got a bit controversial.

Upon reflection, the S9 although perhaps a little overpriced, looks a decent enough thing…for it’s market.

Whether this current shitstorm will make any difference in regard to YouTube marketeers remains to be seen, but probably not so more storm in a teacup probably.

[sanveer]

 

 

Who even trusts these reviewers. 

 

 

[ac6000cw]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I would have thought then it makes more sense to be doubling down on the Panasonic LX15 / LX100 series. Bring out their next generation of them.

It's interesting that the Leica D-Lux 8 has just been announced - https://www.dpreview.com/news/3471020867/leica-continues-compacts-with-d-lux-8-featuring-four-thirds-type-sensor - (looks like same 20MP 4/3 sensor as LX100 ii/D-Lux 7), but with OLED EVF and higher res rear screen, plus USB-C charging).

The D-Lux series have always been Leica versions of Panasonic 'enthusiast' compacts, so might an LX100 iii be on the way (as LX100 ii was discontinued a while ago)?

[ac6000cw]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Whether this current shitstorm will make any difference in regard to YouTube marketeers remains to be seen, but probably not so more storm in a teacup probably.

I agree.

I would hope that most people are not gullible enough to believe that product reviews are 'warts and all' - they are subjective to varying extents, including what to put in and leave out. If you're getting paid to do it (including payments in kind, like 'free' trips) there is always going to be some 'don't bite the hand that feeds you' pressure around, even if it's not overt from the marketing dept. Magazines need advertising revenue, professional social media content creators need sponsorship income. It's nothing new...

[MrSMW]

Plus there is this thing that ‘no publicity is bad publicity’…and whilst I am not sure I entirely agree with that sentiment, in this case it has probably raised more awareness of the S9 than there might otherwise have been.

I didn’t really care about the release initially but since the controversy, have looked a little deeper (more at the camera than the shenanigans BTS) and could make a case for it in my lineup. Not a strong enough case at this time, but that otherwise I would not have bothered with had their not been the controversy.

Also, the CC’s can make ‘reaction’ videos 🤪

[BTM_Pix]

You’d have to question the business wisdom of such a trip that took out at least 7-8 days out of working time when you factor in prep, travel and jet lag recovery.

Yes the travel, accommodation and likely some sort of PD was involved but without an actual fee, how is the loss of earnings for those days covered ?

Even if you factored in the “long term” loan of the camera being so long term that they allow you to sell it then a $1000 spread over 7 days isn’t much of a day rate.

I don’t think the argument of exposure and views compensating holds up either.

The gold rush era of making YouTube camera videos and becoming relatively rich is in the rear view mirror now.

Thats why so many of them are pivoting to other areas.

The days of these get rich quick Beverley Shillbillies will hopefully be a thing of the past pretty soon.

[John Matthews]

2 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

It's interesting that the Leica D-Lux 8 has just been announced - https://www.dpreview.com/news/3471020867/leica-continues-compacts-with-d-lux-8-featuring-four-thirds-type-sensor - (looks like same 20MP 4/3 sensor as LX100 ii/D-Lux 7), but with OLED EVF and higher res rear screen, plus USB-C charging).

The D-Lux series have always been Leica versions of Panasonic 'enthusiast' compacts, so might an LX100 iii be on the way (as LX100 ii was discontinued a while ago)?

Don't tell me they don't have DPAF in it? If not, it would sell only because it's a Leica.

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, sanveer said:

Who even trusts these reviewers. 

Cheers for sharing this new YouTuber! I've been watching some more of his videos, he's quite good / entraining. Am surprised he only has a few hundred subs. 

 

8 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

You got me curious enough to watch it.

"I'm just gonna sell my Red Komodo-X because this is absolutely fire."

He mentions that it's a cheaper camera near the end, but he really seems to be pumped for the Pyxis.  Like I said, still seems like a weird choice to me - but he's welcome to do what he wants for a camera.
 

I mean he makes some decent points  why the Pyxis is "better". 

And if he is in financial strife, and is underwater with the Komodo-X, then is he necessarily going to admit that to his followers? 

And as he mentions in a more recent video, for his client base he doesn't need a RED Komodo-X:

 

I mean if you think it is wild to sell a Komodo to get instead a Blackmagic Pyxis, then you'll blow your mind if you watch these videos of people selling their RED Komodo for instead a Sony FX3 (or an a7Smk3, or even a FX30):

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

13 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I mean if you think it is wild to sell a Komodo to get instead a Blackmagic Pyxis, then you'll blow your mind if you watch these videos of people selling their RED Komodo for instead a Sony FX3 (or an a7Smk3, or even a FX30):

I don't think I ever said "wild."  Just "weird."  It's a lot less weird to me to go from Red to Sony (or almost anybody else).  It's just weird to me that anybody would move from any non-Black Magic brand to Pyxis, in particular - I just think Pyxis is pretty lame and there are a lot of better options at the same price or lower.  Heck, other than "shoots internal raw" and "has lame high-res touchscreen on the side of the camera," the E2-F6 from more than 5 years ago is a far more capable camera.  Anyway, this isn't a Pyxis thread so I'll stop.

Anyway, for a certain YouTuber crowd, it seems like their business really is making videos every few months about why they're changing to a new camera from the old one.  Then they make a series of videos extolling the benefits of the new camera and selling their guide for it and/or lut pack or whatever.  Then a few months later, they move to the next shiny new camera and repeat.

Videos about "Why I sold my ________ and changed to _______" are right up there with someone calling their camera a "beast" in terms of things that will inspire me to ask YouTube to stop suggesting their channel to me.  😅

[IronFilm]

5 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I don't think I ever said "wild."  Just "weird."  It's a lot less weird to me to go from Red to Sony (or almost anybody else).  It's just weird to me that anybody would move from any non-Black Magic brand to Pyxis, in particular - I just think Pyxis is pretty lame and there are a lot of better options at the same price or lower. 

A Komodo and a Pyxis are much closer aligned with each other in terms of the shoot style / market niche they're targeting, than a Komodo and a Sony FX3 / a7Smk3 is as they're even further apart. 

5 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Heck, other than "shoots internal raw" and "has lame high-res touchscreen on the side of the camera," the E2-F6 from more than 5 years ago is a far more capable camera. 

The probably is that ZCam is still positioned in the same place in the market as where Blackmagic was a decade ago. 

So moving to ZCam is an even riskier bet. 

[ac6000cw]

55 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Don't tell me they don't have DPAF in it? If not, it would sell only because it's a Leica.

AFAIK, it doesn't have PDAF - it's basically an updated LX100 ii.

Now a black and silver LX9 or LX1 with the 4/3 25MP sensor and processing from the G9ii (albeit with inevitably short recording times) would be far more interesting - 21MP stills, PDAF, lens OIS plus great EIS, no-crop 4k and excellent FHD?

I'm not holding my breath though, even though I think that's what Panasonic really need to appeal to the upmarket end of the 'cute camera' market as well as the enthusiast compact market.

[PannySVHS]

I would be happy to have a GH5 II image and codecs in a LX or GX camera. Fun fact, a S16 width variante of the G9II sensor with 4 to 3 aspect ratio would still sport more than 12 MP and more slightly more than 4096 px width. A LX100 body with the lens mechanism of the LX10 would be perfect for that and the monitor of the LX10 or GX80. Perfectly dreaming.:)

[SRV1981]

These guys get flown to awesome locations to review cameras. They use the video as a prop to put sponsored ads   But we also have no real alternative to learn and see cameras so we just have to accept it and move on. They need to make a living too and this is their chosen route. 

[MrSMW]

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

You’d have to question the business wisdom of such a trip that took out at least 7-8 days out of working time when you factor in prep, travel and jet lag recovery.

 

I think it falls into the same category as ‘work for free’ as in the reward comes later via other means.

Just like shoot a wedding for free to book 2 more at 500 to book 5 at 1k, then 10 at…and by this time next year Rodney, we’ll be millionaires. (UK sitcom reference).

Attend these all-expenses covered gigs and treat it as a working holiday in order to build a relationship with Company X which you can then use to:

A. Authenticate and market yourself further and gain more subs = more Yo’Tube €£$

B. Go on even more free shindigs to boost the above even further with same or other/more companies.

I think as a business model it can work until either one of the components breaks (such as UTube ceases to be a thing) or in some cases, all the fame and fortune goes to their heads and they cook their golden goose…as happened to one wedding photographer I know and who now claims he likes shooting random shit on the beach out of choice because he burnt all his other bridges.

Personally, I know my place and prefer to remain a working hack and in control of my own modest destiny.

[Andrew Reid]

On 5/25/2024 at 4:33 AM, kye said:

Gerald just put out an incredible video talking about YT camera reviews, reviewers, manufacturers, and how the whole thing works.

He talked about brands specifically and how they have treated him, including Panasonic punishing him for a YT title, Canon, Fuji, Sony, etc.  The good, the bad, and absolutely the ugly.

He also gave a pretty comprehensive and level-headed-sounding overview of how it works.  If all you want to do is complain about everything (which is most people online sadly) then you can skip the nuanced parts of his video and just get to the gossip about each brand (that's what it is after all...) but the whole thing seems well thought-out.  

 

Nice of him to spill the beans after only 10 years of benefiting personally from such beans.

What's next...

A pivot to reviewing Macs?

[Andrew Reid]

On 5/25/2024 at 5:09 AM, John Matthews said:

Steve Huff (Hifi Huff on YouTube) had spoken quite a bit about some of the same topics that Gerald Undone is speaking about, but unfortunately the video is now erased from YouTube, which sucks. EOSHD had another thread on this topic.

 

I enjoyed his pivot to ghosts

[newfoundmass]

9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

You’d have to question the business wisdom of such a trip that took out at least 7-8 days out of working time when you factor in prep, travel and jet lag recovery.

Yes the travel, accommodation and likely some sort of PD was involved but without an actual fee, how is the loss of earnings for those days covered ?

You cover the loss of earnings like you would for any vacation, except you generate revenue from this trip through sponsors and ad revenue based on the content you make from it.

I've traveled all over the United States but I had virtually no time to actually enjoy it. There are cities I've been to literally four dozen times that I've seen very little of, because I had MAYBE 2 or 3 hours of leisure time if I was lucky and the rest were 12+ hour days in a venue doing production set up and filming. Most of my time not at work was spent in a car, hotel, or airport. I guarantee these YouTubers got more time to check out Japan during one of these trips than I got to check out Philly, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc. in the dozens of times each that I was paid to be there to work.

Here is an example of a work trip I did regularly:

Early flight out of Burlington to Chicago on Friday. Land, get picked up, and drive immediately to the venue for 10AM, only stopping to get food. Spend the day setting up. Event starts at 7PM. Film the event (4 hours or so). Tear down. Leave venue around 1AM. Get food. Drive to Detroit. Go to hotel and sleep a few hours. Go to the venue for 10AM, only stopping to get food. Spend the day setting up. Event starts at 7PM. Film the event (4 hours or so.) Tear down. Get food, then drive to airport for early flight back to Burlington. Get home late Sunday. Edit the events. Then repeat the entire process the next weekend.

None of those trips afforded me the opportunity to check out local markets, bars, or watch sunsets surrounded by postcard scenery while enjoying engaging conversations with my colleagues. 😉

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Just watched the Gerald piece.

Brands have been pursuing the same format for launches on social media for many years, but maybe they have now jumped the shark. It's becoming easier and easier to see who is in the preferred circle of manufacturer mouthpieces and who isn't, and therefore what's not objective and what is just a sales pitch and straight forward shilling.

It has undermined the internet and social media so much, that it's starting to become a turn off for even the most unassuming consumers and customers.

We on this forum of course spotted it coming a mile ago, and I think we know how to not get sucked into the hype and just focus on the objective info that comes out of these videos.... although to be honest, usually most of that fits on the back of an envelope even after a 20 minute viewing session.

I've been to a few launches myself and it does absolutely on a personal level make it very uncomfortable and embarrassing to come back home afterwards and then be truly critical to an audience of thousands, it feels like kicking a lot of nice camera company people in the teeth. You will lose that access as a journalist (as I have). You might even be bullied into a non-disparagement agreement as was the case with me and a certain Mr Jannard at RED or made persona-non-grata without future access to pre-release hardware as was the case with Sony and now also Panasonic as well.

The question for me with Gerald is whether he is truly concerned about any of this, or whether he is being hypocritical. I am assuming the latter given the very close relationship he has maintained with nearly all the major PR agencies and camera manufacturers in our industry for years without ever raising these kinds of conflict of interest and objectivity issues until many years later, i.e. now, and even then, purely because he's butt hurt about not being invited on a fancy trip to Tokyo.

On the other hand, props to Gerald for being one of the few Canadian YouTubers who aren't born salesmen / Camera store duo *cough cough*.

It makes perfect sense for the camera manufacturers of course to nurture the next generation of salesman by bringing them to the fore on YouTube, rather than nurturing filmmakers, real reviewers and journalists who can say troublesome things like me.

Some of the key moments for me...

"Why now, why Lumix launch"... I think it's because he wasn't invited. Otherwise, he would have done a video like this about 8 years ago after a Sony launch or a Canon launch. Because the same thing has been going on since about 2012 and the ramp up in YouTube & social media hype of consumer brands.

"I'm just sitting at home reading the reviews"... This is him painting himself as a casual observer, and therefore an objective one.

"Didn't get invited to the S5 II launch in Japan, didn't get invited to S9 launch, because I was critical of GH6"... Exactly, but had he been invited to those - would he still be putting his superman cape on and making a video like this? Nope.

Because in the end he has always been 100% happy to benefit from early access and press trips when it suited him, the sanctimonious bastard.

Sorry... not very polite of me, but then I aint Canadian.