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The Nikon Z6 will be the firat consumer camera to output 12 bit video

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15 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

With the EOS RP announcement and 6 New RF lenses. Nikon will have to go into complete and total overdrive to stay relevant. A new 24 70 2.8 and $6000 50mm MF lenses simply isn't enough. 

Sincerely, what are you gona attach to those lens, I mean for video as we are on a video site. Two mediocre bodies (for video). Nikon has already release 4 lens and they all got very very good to rave reviews. When your 50 mm 1.8 compares well to zeiss Otus it is no mean feat. Every lens from the kit 24-70 f4 zoom (which is even sharper than Nikon 24-70 2.8) have those great reviews. Then you have the hundreds of Nikon, Sigma, Tamron lens that you can use with the adapter. So we are already at 4 lens launch and another one in 1-2 month and we will be around 8 to 10 by the end of this year.

The one which is completely going in inverse overdrive is Canon. They don't want so much to not give people good to great video features that they are prepared to go the price war way. Hey look our shiny 1.3 k ff mirrorless camera with shitty video, it cost so low that it is about half the price of the lens we have launched.

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10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Now that Atomos are a publicly traded company, I feel like buying a few shares so I can turn up at the shareholders meeting and shout "Why the fuck won't you make a 4K Ninja Star???"

 In my case I am asking:
"Why the fvck won't you make a Samurai V????"

(as that is my dream, a Ninja V but with SDI instead of HDMI)

7 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I'd not mind an external recorder with no monitor at all, just make it as compact as possible with SSD's as the recording media.

M.2 SSD please!

Small is beautiful

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3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 In my case I am asking:
"Why the fvck won't you make a Samurai V????"

(as that is my dream, a Ninja V but with SDI instead of HDMI)

 

I'm hopeful that an upcoming AtomX module for the Ninja V will be an SDI one.

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20 hours ago, DBounce said:

I'm not saying it won't. I love to see the boundaries pushed. But there is more to the image than just color... motion cadence is perhaps even more important for video. It's hard to pin down. But having had both cameras side by side for two months and doing exhaustive test of both systems... I can tell you that the Canon just looked more cinematic. In both motion and imagery overall. Yes the Nikon was more detailed. Yes the Nikon had less noise at higher ISOs. But regardless of that, the output from the Canon just plain looked better. I hated parting with the NIkon Z6... because I knew it was better from a technology standpoint. But in the end I just had to accept the truth; the end results looked better from the Canon. While many complained that the Canon is soft (Imagine that... don't we always complain about over-sharpened images?), the Nikon was iMO a bit too sharp. And while I found it relatively easy to increase the sharpness of the Canon's image, I soon learned that decreasing sharpness without looking artificial proved much more challenging. And yes I turned down internal sharpening on the Nikon. There is no way I am aware of to match the organic feel of the Canon. 

6

Agreed. Z6 footage to me looks exactly like A73 but with Nikon color science. No surprise since they basically share the same sensor.

It has this kind of video look compared to Canon imo. And I'm not saying this as a Canon fanboy. I love Nikon, was with them from FM2 until D750.

But what kills me most on Z6/7 is no internal log & the broken AF when shooting log external.

I mean people dog Canon for not putting 4K DPAF inside a $1300 camera but Nikon gets away with broken AF when shooting log on their premium cams?

All this external stuff is cool but I need a cam to do what I need it to do internally first, external comes second.

 

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5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm hopeful that an upcoming AtomX module for the Ninja V will be an SDI one.

But unless it includes the :Blink network timecode systems in the SDI module, then the set up wouldn't be as good as a "Samurai V" (with a TC AtomX module)

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20 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

But unless it includes the :Blink network timecode systems in the SDI module, then the set up wouldn't be as good as a "Samurai V" (with a TC AtomX module)

This is true.

I can see how they could do that as a combi module but, yeah, commercially they are probably better off doing a Samurai V anyway.

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1 hour ago, Django said:

Agreed. Z6 footage to me looks exactly like A73 but with Nikon color science. No surprise since they basically share the same sensor.

It has this kind of video look compared to Canon imo. And I'm not saying this as a Canon fanboy. I love Nikon, was with them from FM2 until D750.

But what kills me most on Z6/7 is no internal log & the broken AF when shooting log external.

I mean people dog Canon for not putting 4K DPAF inside a $1300 camera but Nikon gets away with broken AF when shooting log on their premium cams?

All this external stuff is cool but I need a cam to do what I need it to do internally first, external comes second.

 

Yeah but it's doing full frame 4k 10bit and 12bit out. I agree the Auto focus limitation is a bummer.

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Totally agree on the 4K Ninja Star. As much as I love 10-bit 422 output and ProRes and ProRes Raw and all the other great things that external recorders give us, I hate external recorders. Putting a Ninja V on an EOS R or Z6 or X-T3 is sort of ridiculous (as others have mentioned here) and automatically negates why I would use those cameras in the first place (small, unassuming, versatile, total lightweight package, easy to mount on gimbal, etc).

With the Ninja V, you also need to carry around 5-6 big NPF batteries (and therefore 5-6 chargers) just to get through a day of shooting. And also make sure your sound recordist is standing a good distance away from the camera. Which is difficult when you are also the sound recordist. 

Whether it's my C200 or EOS R or when using something like the GH5 or C300, I don't have any issues with the screens on those cameras. A monitor/recorder is often redundant, loud, and unnecessary (unless you're using the EVA-1, then an external monitor is totally necessary).

PLEASE Atomos. Give me a compact 10-bit 422 4K Recorder without a screen and with a 5-watt per hour power draw (like most non-recording monitors). 

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Great stuff. Still, to put into perspective, a FS700 with update for 12bit output can be bought for less than 2000 usd these days. I am close to getting one. Loving the 10bit prores image it gives with the shogun. Massive indy cinema image!

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On 2/14/2019 at 8:44 AM, mercer said:

Of course, I predict a lot of event shooters and cat shooters will shoot Raw just because...

I would so totally shoot a cat show with 12 bit raw.

BTW: This man with his DIY bubble wrap flash diffuser is my hero.

2019-02-15.thumb.png.f59dee05725af8d6fbdfe395713174c8.png

On 2/14/2019 at 9:15 AM, androidlad said:

12bit sounds sensational eh? In reality 12bit linear RAW wastes too much bits in highlight causing shadow area to exhibit artifacts. In many case 10bit log actually delivers better results than 12bit linear.

Can one change how much data is allocated above or below middle gray by varying ISO? Black Magic published a chart for the BMPCC4K that showed while the dynamic range is the same from ISO 100 to ISO 1000, the amount of data above and below middle gray changes based on the ISO value.

ISO-range-to-latitude.jpg

So in the chart above, shooting near ISO 100 uses more data for below middle gray and shooting closer to ISO 1000 gives more stops above middle gray (as far as I understand, but I apologize if I am wrong).

EDIT: Maybe I misunderstand the difference between linear RAW and LOG RAW???

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48 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I would so totally shoot a cat show with 12 bit raw.

BTW: This man with his DIY bubble wrap flash diffuser is my hero.

2019-02-15.thumb.png.f59dee05725af8d6fbdfe395713174c8.png

Can one change how much data is allocated above or below middle gray by varying ISO? Black Magic published a chart for the BMPCC4K that showed while the dynamic range is the same from ISO 100 to ISO 1000, the amount of data above and below middle gray changes based on the ISO value.

ISO-range-to-latitude.jpg

So in the chart above, shooting near ISO 100 uses more data for below middle gray and shooting closer to ISO 1000 gives more stops above middle gray (as far as I understand, but I apologize if I am wrong).

EDIT: Maybe I misunderstand the difference between linear RAW and LOG RAW???

The difference in ISO is in ProRes only I believe. 

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My understanding is that most log profiles end up effectively underexposing the sensor to give more dynamic range to the highlights, hence why the AF isn't as good when shooting in Log on the Z6.  Saying that Nikon are working on improving the AF so we may see some improvements here, and that flat profile is also pretty nice for most situations.

As far as filmic image, motion cadence and all round I really want an Alexa in a tiny hybrid body that costs $2000 mojo, I think it comes down to how much processing the image receives in camera.  IMO the most beautiful image in terms both colour and motion cadence in an indie camera comes from the digital bolex.  There is no fancy downscaling, no inter frame compression, and zero noise reduction or sharpening done in camera, just a pure image processing pipeline (and the global shutter helps).  So hopefully the raw output on the Z6 will have minimal processing/sharpening etc and if so should be very very nice. I'm looking forward to the 1080p raw output just as much as the 4K.

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On 2/14/2019 at 2:25 PM, liork said:

What do you think, will it bring a real change in grading for us? Nikon confirmed that it will be 12 bit output through HDMI:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2961478322/nikon-announces-development-of-new-firmware-for-z6-and-z7

If you're interested in what the differences are between 10-bit, 12-bit and 14-bit RAW video are, check the Magic Lantern thread and search for those phrases.  We've had that conversation before, because ML has offered those things for ages.  In fact, IIRC it's offered 14-bit RAW for ages and only comparatively recently added 12 and 10-bit variants!

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16 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

This is true.

I can see how they could do that as a combi module but, yeah, commercially they are probably better off doing a Samurai V anyway.

Yes, that is why I am hoping for a Samurai V

As that could then be combined with the TC AtomX module

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16 hours ago, currensheldon said:

PLEASE Atomos. Give me a compact 10-bit 422 4K Recorder without a screen and with a 5-watt per hour power draw (like most non-recording monitors). 

They've gone and done the opposite! 😉
 

 

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