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kaylee

Canon's future: EF or RF?

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According to Canon USA's website, the new RF mount is

Quote

amazing

WHAT is going on with the future of Canon camera bodies?

Is RF the new EF?

How does this affect the C line?

What in the actual heck is going on?

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RF has better connectors that they needed to improve communications to the camera. They know that they can force people who have a large EF collection, to buy the same lenses in RF, even if their EF version is fine. They made much better versions in RF; things that customers have begged for like (24-70mm 2.8 IS/15-35mm 2.8 IS). If you want it, they will make you go to the RF system, it won't come to EF on purpose. 

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I would expect them to eventually make a system like RED, where you can setup what mount you want to use. Just offering EF, RF, PL. 

Or I assume doing just an RF & having us use an EF adapter, would keep things smaller and more weather sealed. 

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3 hours ago, kaylee said:

Is RF the new EF?


Well d'oh, of course it is. Mirrorless will in the long term replace DSLRs.

(the biggest worry should be for EOS-M users, as clearly the EOS-M system is in the mid term headed to dodo land)
 

3 hours ago, kaylee said:

 How does this affect the C line?


My money is on them joining the RF system, maybe not the next generation of C series, but it will happen eventually.

 

2 hours ago, Snowbro said:

I would expect them to eventually make a system like RED, where you can setup what mount you want to use. Just offering EF, RF, PL. 

Or I assume doing just an RF & having us use an EF adapter, would keep things smaller and more weather sealed. 

Odds are likely is what they'll do is the same as Sony with Venice, which is having E mount as a "sub mount" underneath it all. But of course RF in Canon's case instead. 

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EF mount is dead!  Canon did the same to FD mount lenses and cameras in the late 1980's.  If Canon predicts a 50 percent drop in camera sales, then they need to generate new revenue by selling the latest fad to people with money to burn.  If you have EF cameras and lenses, sell them now so you can get top dollar.

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2 hours ago, kaylee said:

whats up with the R series? who has one?

hows the EVF? etc

I had two, lots of freezing issues and AF isn't as good as the 5d/1d. Ergo's aren't on the same level obviously; one thing they should have done, is put a bump where your thumb goes. That helps you hold the camera easier with one hand with a big lens on it. Banding issues in photos at +1 stop exposure; i've also seen it in video. 

In short, I think the 3rd body they release (After the RP) will be worth buying. 

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I think Snowbro got a lemon, I’ve had EOS R since day one and have travelled with it across six countries already with zero bugs or freezes. Banding is also a total non issue imo: 

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61799696

The camera has its well documented issues & limitations, namely poor RS & a massive 4K crop but other than that i find it’s an ace mirrorless cam for stills & video.

UI/Ergonomics are also excellent imo, if balance or handling with big lenses is an issue just add the vertical grip.

Obviously if you compare it to a $6K 1DX2 it may fall short in certain areas.

As for EF vs RF, clearly the new mount allows for superior optics design but also the new electronic contacts allow the configurable electronic ring control and two-way communication for enhanced lens IS. Even more functionality is expected in the future.

All this comes at a price though and with only EOS R/RP for bodies it’s a questionable investment at the moment for those invested in the full ecosystem range (EF based DSLRS & C line).

Also the upcoming Vari-ND adapter favors even more the use of adapted EF glass on EOS R for video.

EF still has a few years left ahead and even when Canon will have developed a full range of RF bodies & lenses, that will only mean cheaper second hand EF glass.

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Agreed @Django I think @Snowbro got a lemon. My R exhibits none of the freezing or banding he mentioned. If it did I would have returned it day one.

Yes, RF is the future, but I think you are looking longer term for EF to be fazed out... 10 years or so. Canon are getting set to release four new EF lenses in the coming weeks.

 

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EF still has a long future, most of the workhorse lenses have been updated recently, and given the push into mirrorless it stands to reason the focus will be RF over the next couple years. There's no reason a company of Canon's size can't keep both alive and they'll still keep cranking out new DSLR's as long as people are buying them.

The EOS-M mount seems to be the odd-man-out and probably won't see anything by the way of new lenses going forward. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a M->RF adapter at some point. They'll be similar to Sony's aps-c, new bodies, no new lenses. There has to be entry-level options because they sell really well, so Canon isn't going to abandon them completely. I do think we'll see the EOS-M line sunsetting and the entry aps-c line moving to RF in a couple years with a few plastic kit zooms. Then they can promote the mythical "upgrade path" to the more advanced bodies than few people buying plastic kit lenses will ever actually do.

A RF mount cinema camera makes a lot of sense given the fact the lenses were designed for mirrorless. A ILC version of the XC10/15 with a s35 sensor would be awesome. 

Chris

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I wouldn't expect dozens of millions of EF (and they are not just Canon ones) lenses to vaporize on a couple of years.

It will take years and years for production companies, pro photographers to change to another mount. Panasonic and Blackmagic offers EF cameras, a lot of Sonys use EF lenses. E.t.c.

E.g whoever has the latest 70-200mm IS 4f, must be mostly happy with the performance and Image Quality, do not see them change easily.

Another significant issue is that a lot of people are choosing a different mirrorless mount altogether, matching and combining with older EF lenses, and admittedly Sony has the most complete and wide full frame mirrorless lens line that work from the a6300 to the FS7ii.

I would guess that it will take Canon a lot more time to sell as many R lenses as EF.

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5 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I would guess that it will take Canon a lot more time to sell as many R lenses as EF.

Maybe even if ever?

On the 30th anniversary of the EF introduction in 2017, Canon announced it had sold 130 million of them.

Even if they maintained that rate of over 4 million lenses a year for a few years, how niche a product will interchangeable lenses be in 2048 when everyone is taking selfies in their hover cars using computational cameras?

I think EF lenses are by far the safest bet for people looking for a universal lens that doesn't tie you into a system. The last hurdle was getting them onto a Nikon body but even that has been solved now by the TechArt adapter opening up a route to mount them on Z mount.

When you add in being able to use them with the variable ND on the R as well and also them being able to be used on the Panasonic L mount, the new full frame mirrorless systems have actually cemented the ubiquity of the EF lenses rather than diminished it.

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I'm pumped for the RF mount for all the lens adaptor options I used while using Sony's E-Mount for a bit. 

Unfortunately, the two best things about the RF mount are incompatible. Which are:

LENSES - Canon is about to release a whole bunch of new lenses and among them are a 15-35mm f2.8 and 24-70mm f2.8 that both have stabilization - which is awesome! and something that their EF counterparts don't do. Add the groundbreaking 28-70 f2 and the other high-quality RF lenses, and their lens lineup will soon be one of the best in the mirrorless game (amazing after launching just 4-6 months ago).

ADAPTER - However, the best part about the RF-Mount for mirrorless cameras is that forthcoming EF > RF Variable ND Adapter. I decided to get an EOS R for video rather than so many other options and in spite of its big 4K crop specifically for that adapter. Can't wait until that is released. Carrying around a bunch of step up rings and NDs and variable NDs has been super old for years now. Will be great when I can use ANY lens on my EOS R and not have to worry about filter threads and also not being able to use my lens hoods to block unwanted light and flares. 

But, I'm sure all future Cinema EOS camera will have an RF-Mount option. Easy to take mounts on and off like Red does or the Sony Venice does. And the RF mount is so much more versatile. Dreaming of a Super35mm XC-15 style RF mount camera or a C300 Mark III with the RF mount. 

We'll see

 

 

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There are mountains of threads on the freezing & banding problems, the ones with proof usually get deleted on dpreview. You wont have colored banding in every shot, it's usually in backlit scenarios. Your camera probably has exhibited the freezing, but you might have not noticed. It will stop auto focusing during video, you can usually see this from everything (info) on the screen vanishing, but the AF box. It's not focusing when this happens, but it still records, imagine how bad this can be after a shoot if you didnt realize it happened. 

I had two copies, 4 months apart. It seems nearly impossible from a statistical perspective, to have two lemons if their quality control is like their normal Canon QC. 

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7 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

EF still has a long future, most of the workhorse lenses have been updated recently, and given the push into mirrorless it stands to reason the focus will be RF over the next couple years. There's no reason a company of Canon's size can't keep both alive and they'll still keep cranking out new DSLR's as long as people are buying them.

The EOS-M mount seems to be the odd-man-out and probably won't see anything by the way of new lenses going forward. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a M->RF adapter at some point. They'll be similar to Sony's aps-c, new bodies, no new lenses. There has to be entry-level options because they sell really well, so Canon isn't going to abandon them completely. I do think we'll see the EOS-M line sunsetting and the entry aps-c line moving to RF in a couple years with a few plastic kit zooms. Then they can promote the mythical "upgrade path" to the more advanced bodies than few people buying plastic kit lenses will ever actually do.

A RF mount cinema camera makes a lot of sense given the fact the lenses were designed for mirrorless. A ILC version of the XC10/15 with a s35 sensor would be awesome. 

Chris

No. Probably the M cameras will go forward as the consumer models simply because the M lenses are more compact in design and the R cameras as prosumer models. Stuff that uses the EF-S lenses is more likely to fade into the sunset along with EF systems (although those will take longer to poof).

The R lenses are expensive and complete overkill in terms of glass for consumer cameras with smaller sensors.

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I wouldn't expect dozens of millions of EF (and they are not just Canon ones) lenses to vaporize on a couple of years.

It will take years and years for production companies, pro photographers to change to another mount. Panasonic and Blackmagic offers EF cameras, a lot of Sonys use EF lenses. E.t.c.

E.g whoever has the latest 70-200mm IS 4f, must be mostly happy with the performance and Image Quality, do not see them change easily.

Another significant issue is that a lot of people are choosing a different mirrorless mount altogether, matching and combining with older EF lenses, and admittedly Sony has the most complete and wide full frame mirrorless lens line that work from the a6300 to the FS7ii.

I would guess that it will take Canon a lot more time to sell as many R lenses as EF.

They will stop designing new EF lenses within a few years though, if it has not already happened. What is the point in developing new lenses for an obsolete system that is going to cease to be available on new camera designs going forward (excluding those bodies already designed and not yet released yet of course).

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