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Nikon FF Mirrorless

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23 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Wait... what? I thought Canon/Sony/Nikon are the top three in the world? 

 

Nope in terms of market share (2017, Japan only because that is all the data we have available (without paying) - BCN.)

The top 3 manufacturers of ILC lenses are:

Canon 22%

Sigma 16%

Tamron 14%

Source:https://www.canonrumors.com/bcn-rankings-are-out-canon-continues-to-dominate-dslrs-further-growth-in-mirrorless/

So, to me, effectively excluding Tamron and Sigma from your lens mount may well prove a mistake for Nikon....

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57 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Depends on if Nikon offers that option. 

It is possible when you select 1080 monitoring that the output might drop down to 8bit again. 

Who knows. We'll have to wait and see. 

Seems a waste to buy a Z7/Z6 and to only use it for 1080!

Well if the 1080p in the Z6/Z7 is a downscale from the 1080p (I assume it is) it should be sharp and detailed 1080p video and when exported, with either NLog or the Flat Profile, a beautiful 10bit ProRes could be the result. 

As far as why buy a Z6/Z7 and only shoot 1080p... I guess we could ask why John Brawley would use an Ursa Mini 4.6K Pro and only shoot 1080p ProRes with it... seems like a waste. ?

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1 hour ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

2. 

Most know-nothing DSLR soccer moms and the like got a short zoom, a long zoom, and a 50mm. Got tons of people who wanted to do their own portraits/headshots for fun or to save money. Prime lenses there. Travel photography, sold a wide fast prime to plenty of those. Same with astrophotographers. Even had one wild dude who was a serious birder and bought several brutally expensive primes, including a 500mm.

Do most consumers go for zooms first? Sure. But I would not say "no one except pros use primes." In fact, working photographers are the exact people who often benefit from zooms to get critical shots, while hobbyists can pick up a more fulfilling prime, take their time, and not worry about potentially missing a paycheck moment.

I never said no one but Pros, I said "other than Pros I doubt many people buy primes anymore". Sort of a different meaning.

In the college town I live in I haven't seen a real camera, even parents with their students, for years. It is Smartphones, and even that not many out often taking photos or video. I guess the students would think that would look dorky. Teeny Bopper stuff. Now walking down the street with one looking at the screen, yeah pretty big time on that!

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I never said no one but Pros, I said "other than Pros I doubt many people buy primes anymore". Sort of a different meaning.

In the college town I live in I haven't seen a real camera, even parents with their students, for years. It is Smartphones, and even that not many out often taking photos or video. I guess the students would think that would look dorky. Teeny Bopper stuff. Now walking down the street with one looking at the screen, yeah pretty big time on that!

Still, I'd completely disagree. Especially when more and more camera/lens sales moving upstream into the "enthusiast market."

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I see a people use them on the web VLogging, but most use cheap P&S style cameras or cheap Canon DSLR's. It is only a few on you tube that use top end stuff. Why bother when you a spitting out 150 or more videos a year. Even the Canon cameras with DPAF pump like hell on them. Why the hell you even Need AF when you are sitting at a deck, the same desk all the time with the camera on a tripod?

I don't even see Drones around here, but I must admit a few have been shot out of the sky in a state below me LoL. Yikes. And no concerts around here even allow a real camera in them so why bother. I am beginning to think people here and on DPR are the only people in the world that even buy a camera! I am not bullshitting, I just don't see people with cameras here where I live. I go out all the time to shoot stuff. I have nothing else to do. It is me with a camera, just me, everyone else is on a Smartphone. Now I don't go to school sports stuff. You are Not doing that as a old man in this day and age with kids on the field, no way, not even with a Smartphone.

Even the big time news agencies here use little Sony camcorders geared toward ENG work. The only big ENG cameras you see are at Sporting events, Cincy Reds Baseball, Bengals Football games.  I go to a reasonable amount of Reds games every year and I don't see cameras there either. And then the really big ENG cameras  are on tripods with Box B4 lenses on them. The ones hand held are pretty damn small on the field and in the stands. Probably all of them using a 1" sensor now if newer, and all are wireless with live feed on them...

Maybe you sell to really rich people to use on their yacht!

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11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

With Nikon, it is difficult to 2nd guess their intentions for this camera and lenses to be considered for professional use, just as it is for its existing products.

In theory, you might inagine that if they consider it a professional camera then it will appear on the qualifying list for NPS.

https://www.nikonpro.com/ProductList.aspx

It doesn't yet of course but when it's actually available I have no doubt it will do as when you take a look at the cameras and lenses (especially the DX ones) that are on the list you will find many which you would at best consider prosumer ones. 

There are plenty of single card slot cameras on that list too by the way.

Admittedly because they use a points system you would need a fair amount of the lower end stuff to reach the 750 point threshold to qualify for membership but Nikon do acknowledge in this way that you don't have to have their most expensive equipment to be a professional photographer and receive the same benefits as those that do.

Which is good for the user (as professional photography is a broad church where not everyone needs the features or build of the higher priced equipment) but bad for trying to win internet arguments.

That is absolutely crazy.

That Nikons DSLR APSC kit lenses qualify with 120 points is crazy enough by itself but the new 19mm PCE tilt shift lens only scores 100 points?

Given that, I am sure everything Zed will qualify!

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4 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Still, I'd completely disagree. Especially when more and more camera/lens sales moving upstream into the "enthusiast market."

I think I am actually seeing a slight INCREASE in ILCs (both DSLR and mirrorless) here thanks to Instagram though that might just be a momentary blip and phones are really good enough now for most.   Many seem to have at least one prime even if just a 50 1.8.

  When phones can do other stuff well (EG macro, tilt shift, low light, super tele ETC) the game will be over.

As a Sony USER, it I great to see that lens manufacturer list as virtually all of them could be made to work on a Sony.       That isn't so good for Sony the company except it might sell a few more cameras than it otherwise would.       It WAS good for them at the start but they would now prefer people by Sony brand stuff I would think and only adapt the stuff they don't make.

Nikon aint getting ANY of that at least just yet.

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6 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Nope in terms of market share (2017, Japan only because that is all the data we have available (without paying) - BCN.)

The top 3 manufacturers of ILC lenses are:

Canon 22%

Sigma 16%

Tamron 14%

Source:https://www.canonrumors.com/bcn-rankings-are-out-canon-continues-to-dominate-dslrs-further-growth-in-mirrorless/

So, to me, effectively excluding Tamron and Sigma from your lens mount may well prove a mistake for Nikon....

Given overall market share numbers - I'd bet Canon and Nikon are likely 1-2 in lenses, no way Sigma and Tamron are moving more lenses than the kit lenses on CaNikon's plastic DSLR's.

Nikon has 25% of the overall market as seen in the graph below and Canon is pushing toward 50%. CIPA says 19 million lenses were shipped last year, and Nikon's annual report says they shipped 4.6 million, though Nikon's fiscal year runs through March 2018, and that is the slowest quarter for sales on a calendar year basis so they aren't perfectly aligned - especially since 2018 has been down YOY compared to 2017. I'm too lazy to try and find all the quarterly numbers to make everything match up, but that's still over 24%. Japan is obviously different, Olympus is huge there. Much like how Fuji is supposedly the #1camera brand in Thailand.

Chris

 

 

Screen Shot 2018-08-25 at 2.08.35 PM.png

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11 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Most know-nothing DSLR soccer moms and the like got a short zoom, a long zoom, and a 50mm.

I know quite a few soccer mums who bought prime lenses.  Apart from the nerds in forums like these, there are two customers I used to see all the time, the photography enthusiast who buys a 5DIII and an L series zoom and makes professional but mostly lifeless photos (all equipment no technique), and the clueless soccer mum who came and asked me for a camera to take pictures of the kids and nice holiday pictures.

The problem with the soccer mum wanting to take pictures of the kids is that they want to take pictures of junior who is running around, inside, in poor lighting and they've found out that by the time their point and shoot has focused the kid is in another room, and if they manage to accidentally get one in focus the picture is blurry because it was a 1/10s exposure, and the ISO noise is shot to hell as well.  They ask what the solution is, and it's a real camera (entry level DSLR) and so they buy that with the kit lens but often that's not enough for the low light conditions so they need a prime to get more light in the camera.  I would always recommend Nikon because the 35mm 1.8 was affordable (Canon 35mm 1.8 was not) and on a APSC body the 50mm is 80mm and that's probably a bit too tight a focal length for indoor photography.  The advice was pretty easy to give, prime lens for inside, zoom for outside, use the mode dial to choose the picture you're taking.  After that I would sometimes get an odd question, but mostly the only feedback I would get from then on was nice pictures.

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5 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Given overall market share numbers - I'd bet Canon and Nikon are likely 1-2 in lenses, no way Sigma and Tamron are moving more lenses than the kit lenses on CaNikon's plastic DSLR's.

Nikon has 25% of the overall market as seen in the graph below and Canon is pushing toward 50%. CIPA says 19 million lenses were shipped last year, and Nikon's annual report says they shipped 4.6 million, though Nikon's fiscal year runs through March 2018, and that is the slowest quarter for sales on a calendar year basis so they aren't perfectly aligned - especially since 2018 has been down YOY compared to 2017. I'm too lazy to try and find all the quarterly numbers to make everything match up, but that's still over 24%. Japan is obviously different, Olympus is huge there. Much like how Fuji is supposedly the #1camera brand in Thailand.

Chris

 

 

Screen Shot 2018-08-25 at 2.08.35 PM.png

Cant really argue with those numbers.

Thinking about it. My numbers were from BCN who measure sales at the retail level. My guess would be that if a camera ships with a kit lens (or even two kit lenses) they classify it as a 'camera sale' rather 'a camera and lens sale'. So they are only counting independent lens sales. Just a guess but those percentages from BCN make more sense in that context.

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10 hours ago, kye said:

I know quite a few soccer mums who bought prime lenses.  Apart from the nerds in forums like these, there are two customers I used to see all the time, the photography enthusiast who buys a 5DIII and an L series zoom and makes professional but mostly lifeless photos (all equipment no technique), and the clueless soccer mum who came and asked me for a camera to take pictures of the kids and nice holiday pictures.

The problem with the soccer mum wanting to take pictures of the kids is that they want to take pictures of junior who is running around, inside, in poor lighting and they've found out that by the time their point and shoot has focused the kid is in another room, and if they manage to accidentally get one in focus the picture is blurry because it was a 1/10s exposure, and the ISO noise is shot to hell as well.  They ask what the solution is, and it's a real camera (entry level DSLR) and so they buy that with the kit lens but often that's not enough for the low light conditions so they need a prime to get more light in the camera.  I would always recommend Nikon because the 35mm 1.8 was affordable (Canon 35mm 1.8 was not) and on a APSC body the 50mm is 80mm and that's probably a bit too tight a focal length for indoor photography.  The advice was pretty easy to give, prime lens for inside, zoom for outside, use the mode dial to choose the picture you're taking.  After that I would sometimes get an odd question, but mostly the only feedback I would get from then on was nice pictures.


I agree, the 35mm f1.8G is a killer feature in favor of the Nikon APS-C as the starter DSLR . 

As 35mm is the perfect general purpose prime lens as it is a "normal". Plus a 50mm to get later on still nice and cheap. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Aussie Ash said:

Nikon USA are listing the DX Nikkors as being fully compatible with the FTZ adaptor.They aren't much use on

full frame so I am assuming there is  DX mirrorless with Z mount in the pipeline.

 

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/photography-accessories/ftz-mount-adapter.page

Don't forget, you do have almost 20mp in crop mode on the Z7, but there's been talk of DX coming at some point. Most of the heavy lifting has been done with the development of the first Zed's. I think we see a down spec FF model too, with the Z6 sensor/AF, lower res EVF/LCD and a cheaper build body priced around $400 less - kind of the D600 of the lineup, call it the Z5. Early next year at CES makes sense for entry level DX models since its a consumer show with a much wider reach than photo specific events like Photokina. 

Chris

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11 minutes ago, Django said:

There will be a DX mode in the Z6/Z7 just like on every current Nikon FF DSLR..

Depending on their implementation, this can be a very useful feature, both for lens compatibility, but also as a digital teleconverter that doesn't lose resolution.  :)

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On 8/24/2018 at 5:07 AM, Trek of Joy said:

I dig that Nikon is giving the Otus line the middle finger with the Noct. Hopefully they build more.

With all due respect, I fail to understand why anyone would want to ‘give the middle finger’ to Zeiss Otus.

Otus lenses retail for $4,000; Nikon will be selling its Noct for 50% more - a whopping $6,000!

Is that what you call ‘giving the middle finger’ to Otus?

Will you be buying one? Or perhaps a whole set?

But mostly I’m curious where the hostility for one of the oldest and most respected names in the business  comes from. 

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On 8/25/2018 at 7:30 PM, Robert Collins said:

Canon 22%

Sigma 16%

Tamron 14%

Source:https://www.canonrumors.com/bcn-rankings-are-out-canon-continues-to-dominate-dslrs-further-growth-in-mirrorless/

So, to me, effectively excluding Tamron and Sigma from your lens mount may well prove a mistake for Nikon....

They're Sigma/Tamron sales after all, not Nikon/Sony sales. Canikon and also Sony, make camera bodies to sell lens. Sony had to give away its own potential lens sales to third parties cause it couldn't rival the huge Canikon install base. 

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