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Canon "Fullframe" Mirrorless


IronFilm

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We’re told a big selling point of all future Canon prosumer camera bodies will be video capabilities. Internally Canon has had a lot of discussion about improving the perceived feature set of prosumer cameras to match the likes of Sony and Panasonic.

http://www.canonrumors.com/video-capabilities-will-be-at-the-heart-of-all-future-canon-prosumer-camera-bodies-cr2/

Soooo........ "perceived" feature set? Does that mean we'll finally get proper full HD out of a Canon stills camera? Only for them to then dress it up (or rather up scale it) and call it "4K"! ha ?

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im using a hacked camera from 2012. thats where im at with canon

edit: i tried to read that article and the first sentence had me cracking up

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We’re told a big selling point of all future Canon prosumer camera bodies will be video capabilities.

?????? AAAAHAHAHAAA... thats just so FUNNY

but... maybe its true lol

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If Canon just plays catch up (as I suspect they will) they're not going to win back any Sony, Panasonic or Blackmagic shooters. DPAF is good, but it's not everything. I haven't shot anything with an 8bit codec in years, and nothing else Canon puts in a camera would make me wanna go back to 2012. If Canon goes with Canon raw or ProRes raw, then it could be interesting, but they won't.

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In a way Canon could be in the perfect position to WOW us with a big change..   they have had the ability (from their cine camera lineup) for many years, have tested similar form factors with the EF-M range and the XC10/15, but now the market has said loud and clear that video quality really matters (eg, with Sony taking market share), that it matters with Canon (with the response to the M50) and also Sony will have shown them what putting excellent video in mirrorless form-factors will do to your cine range, so it might be a case of conservative management having satisfied itself that it's not too risky and is worthy of significant investment.

I'm not saying they will (although I'm crossing all my fingers and all my toes!) but there is a logic to it, so it's not out of the question.

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Once they dive into mirrorless fully, I am sure they will do well.      Meanwhile, if Canon isn't your flavour there are plenty of other choices.

I doubt I will ever get another Canon camera (unless something cheap and fun comes my way) but I still love their lenses.

My favourite lens ever still being the 17 TS-E and currently, I love playing around with my 28 year old EF 20-35 2.8 L

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I think even Sony is going to have to Sabotage the FS5 mk II with the new Sony A7s mk III. They damned near Have to have 10 bit in it. They just can't let Panasonic "show" them up and not respond. I think the FS5 mk II is outdated in this day and age other than the form factor, buttons, and the ND's. There has to be a way to put Variable ND's on a Mirrorless, heck that is what a FS5 is. Other than Full HD 10bit 4:2:2 and the Ability to output up to 4K 60P in Raw using a external recorder, which is a big deal, what other than form factor does a FS5 mk II really have? I know there is a few more goodies but why can't it be put in a Sony A7s mkIII for 1000 bucks less? If Sony did that they could bury Canon for years and years with their Mirrorless..

Gimbals and Drones are the big thing now. Small is in. Look at the Kinefinity, it is small as heck. Only thing I can think about is 4K Raw internal needing probably a C Fast Card in it. Might not fit in a small camera body? But the 4K BMPCC is using a C Fast card slot and it is not too big. But it isn't FF either!

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7 hours ago, ntblowz said:

If their FHD is like C100 quality then it will be a big selling point 

 

8bit FHD in 2018/2018 will be a tough sell as a key feature. 
 

42 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Gimbals and Drones are the big thing now. Small is in. Look at the Kinefinity, it is small as heck.

The Terra makes a RED body look big!

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I think even Sony is going to have to Sabotage the FS5 mk II with the new Sony A7s mk III. They damned near Have to have 10 bit in it. They just can't let Panasonic "show" them up and not respond. I think the FS5 mk II is outdated in this day and age other than the form factor, buttons, and the ND's. There has to be a way to put Variable ND's on a Mirrorless, heck that is what a FS5 is. Other than Full HD 10bit 4:2:2 and the Ability to output up to 4K 60P in Raw using a external recorder, which is a big deal, what other than form factor does a FS5 mk II really have? I know there is a few more goodies but why can't it be put in a Sony A7s mkIII for 1000 bucks less? If Sony did that they could bury Canon for years and years with their Mirrorless..

Gimbals and Drones are the big thing now. Small is in. Look at the Kinefinity, it is small as heck. Only thing I can think about is 4K Raw internal needing probably a C Fast Card in it. Might not fit in a small camera body? But the 4K BMPCC is using a C Fast card slot and it is not too big. But it isn't FF either!

I disagree with this bit. Panasonic and Sony have different video strategies. Panasonic is basically small sensor, big body and Sony is big sensor, small body. Panasonic's strategy will likely always give it a competitive advantage over Sony in terms of bit rate, bit depth and ibis. Sony's strategy will always give it a competitive advantage in some areas over Panasonic - DR, low light and native shallow DOF (as well as still image quality.)

A lot of filmmakers see Sony's 8 bit as uncompetitive, a lot of still/hybrid shooters see Panasonic's sensor size as uncompetitive. But really it is a case of you pays your money and accept your compromises (or you end up buying both!!)

Having said that I am not sure where this leaves the mythical Sony A7SM3 in the light of the US$2k A7iii.

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17 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

Having said that I am not sure where this leaves the mythical Sony A7SM3 in the light of the US$2k A7iii.

Maybe it will never happen? 

Was hard to imagine Sony would keep up forever 3x a7 series body variants  + an a9 body, not in what is an overall declining market. 


Plus of course below it an a6x00 series (with people constantly begging for an a5 or a7000 or something APS-C "pro" body) and the FS5 series just above. Puts the a7S series in an extra tricky spot. 

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I still think coming out with a new body that is pretty much video based is going to be a damn hard sell staying at 8 bit down the road. And a A7s variant is pretty much that.

IronFilm is sort of right, what much more do you need that the new A7 mk III has other than 10 bit, maybe Anamorphic? In a sense they are giving away the A7 mk III.

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26 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Maybe it will never happen? 

Was hard to imagine Sony would keep up forever 3x a7 series bodies + an a9 body, not in what is an overall declining market. 


Plus of course below it an a6x00 series (with people constantly begging for an a5 or a7000 or something APS-C "pro" body) and the FS5 series just above. Puts the a7S series in an extra tricky spot. 

I think we will eventually get an A7SM3 but the question is whether it is going to be a 'wow' camera like the A9/A7R3/A73 or a 'roll your eyes' offering like the FS5M2.

My guess is that they will use the A9's stacked CMOS sensor tech to improve rolling shutter further and maybe 10 bit external recording. At say US$3500 that isnt going to make a lot of people happy - especially if what you are really looking for is a full frame GH5.

And if they introduce an A7SM3 that doesnt really sell or fails to gain traction, then that might be the end of the line.

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22 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

And if they introduce an A7SM3 that doesnt really sell or fails to gain traction, then that might be the end of the line.

Wonder how well the a7Smk2 itself sold. 
I know of filmmakers who picked the a7Rmk2 over the a7Smk2
But none of them ever picked the a7Rmk1 over the a7Smk1!

However the a7Rmk2 caught up with the a7S series for video (give or take a bit, in some ways it was a bit better, in a few ways a bit worse), and of course for stills the a7R line up is way way ahead. 

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A7S3 is definitely coming. latest rumors suggest the Venice color science (to match Venice/FS5Mk2 as b-cam), a new BSI sensor reducing RS, even better low-light & faster HFR.

10-bit.. maybe in FHD. highly doubtful in 4k. would love a less compressed codec than the 100mbps XAVC-S.

It's going to be an interesting year at Photokina with FF Canikon's hopefully announced!

 

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Was hard to imagine Sony would keep up forever 3x a7 series body variants  + an a9 body, not in what is an overall declining market. 

Maybe they go upmarket and have the A9S, include all the fancy features, give a bigger offering from the A7SII, and because it's A9 series they can charge more for it?

In a way having the A7III is kind of a duplicate for the A9 but at a lower level - so an A9S above the A7SII makes sense.

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