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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K


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4 hours ago, TurboRat said:

How's the GH5/GH5s now that you compared the P4K to them?

So, this is a much harder to answer question than you might think. The files straight out of camera are great on the GH5/GH5s. So, if you have a project that requires a quick turn around and doesn't have a budget for much post processing, I think that the GH5/GH5s is a better option than the P4K/P6K. In my opinion, the GH5/GH5s is also better for run/gun situations (better battery life, better ergonomics, better AF, etc.).

The BRAW files on the P4K & P6K are excellent, but they require post processing. I don't care for the files if you just use them straight out of camera, like by baking in a LUT. I have tried the Blackmagic LUT, the Leeming LUT,  the Buttery Films LUT, and others, but I don't like the way the files look unless I pull them into Davinci and process them. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, but I broadcast events live several times per week. I need to be able to apply a LUT to the live feed and have a great look to broadcast. So far, I haven't perfected that process. I am still not happy with the image straight from the camera. I am working on LUTs for this on a regular basis. We just finished a commercial shot entirely on the P4Ks and it turned out great, but we had time to process the footage.

So for fast turnaround projects, pick the GH5/GH5s. If you have time to work with the footage, pick the P4K/P6K. If I can get a nice display LUT, then I will use the P4K/P6K much more often and could probably replace the Panasonic cameras all together. For me and the work that I do, the S1H is darn near the perfect camera (although the AF still bothers me...)

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My dear erstwhile member can you please stop attacking John Brawley now. I have long since given up on camera forum arguments so might not be completely up on who is right and who is wrong-evil /

I like the pictures. A lot.  This camera will probably replace the micro cinema camera for me as it’s not much bigger and is much easier to work with.  I didn’t feel as strongly about the 4K

What a shame. Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat t

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5 hours ago, drm said:

All kidding aside, it bugs me to use the 10-bit on my GH5 & GH5s now that I have gotten used to the BRAW on the P4K & P6K. I love the GH5 & GH5s footage, but the flexibility of raw is just amazing.

I played with 10-bit vs 12-bit vs 14-bit on my Canon 700D with ML RAW and didn't see that much difference, so I just decided that 10-bit was enough.  Not to say there wasn't any difference, because there was, but it was fairly slight I thought.  Then again, not that much DR with Canon and I didn't shoot many actual videos with it, so a few caveats.

28 minutes ago, drm said:

So, this is a much harder to answer question than you might think. The files straight out of camera are great on the GH5/GH5s. So, if you have a project that requires a quick turn around and doesn't have a budget for much post processing, I think that the GH5/GH5s is a better option than the P4K/P6K. In my opinion, the GH5/GH5s is also better for run/gun situations (better battery life, better ergonomics, better AF, etc.).

The BRAW files on the P4K & P6K are excellent, but they require post processing. I don't care for the files if you just use them straight out of camera, like by baking in a LUT. I have tried the Blackmagic LUT, the Leeming LUT,  the Buttery Films LUT, and others, but I don't like the way the files look unless I pull them into Davinci and process them. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, but I broadcast events live several times per week. I need to be able to apply a LUT to the live feed and have a great look to broadcast. So far, I haven't perfected that process. I am still not happy with the image straight from the camera. I am working on LUTs for this on a regular basis. We just finished a commercial shot entirely on the P4Ks and it turned out great, but we had time to process the footage.

So for fast turnaround projects, pick the GH5/GH5s. If you have time to work with the footage, pick the P4K/P6K. If I can get a nice display LUT, then I will use the P4K/P6K much more often and could probably replace the Panasonic cameras all together. For me and the work that I do, the S1H is darn near the perfect camera (although the AF still bothers me...)

You might already be doing this, but are you taking your final exports and creating LUTs to try in-camera?  (your wording wasn't clear above, so not sure if that's what you say you're already doing..)

You might also be able to take one of the standard LUTs, apply some additional corrections, and then export that as a LUT to use?

 

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48 minutes ago, kye said:

You might already be doing this, but are you taking your final exports and creating LUTs to try in-camera?  (your wording wasn't clear above, so not sure if that's what you say you're already doing..)

You might also be able to take one of the standard LUTs, apply some additional corrections, and then export that as a LUT to use?

I have been playing with that method lately. I work in constantly changing lighting conditions and I haven't been super thrilled with the results so far, but I am confident that I will find something that works well. I even made a LUT that matches the GH5s ... so many excuses to play :)

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7 hours ago, drm said:

The BRAW files on the P4K & P6K are excellent, but they require post processing. I don't care for the files if you just use them straight out of camera, like by baking in a LUT. I have tried the Blackmagic LUT, the Leeming LUT,  the Buttery Films LUT, and others, but I don't like the way the files look unless I pull them into Davinci and process them. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, but I broadcast events live several times per week. I need to be able to apply a LUT to the live feed and have a great look to broadcast. So far, I haven't perfected that process. I am still not happy with the image straight from the camera. I am working on LUTs for this on a regular basis. We just finished a commercial shot entirely on the P4Ks and it turned out great, but we had time to process the footage.

I was really hoping you can adjust a baked in lut within the camera like add contrast or adjust whites and blacks on the fly with a baked in LUT. That would speed up the workflow instead of going through processing every time.  But it looks like cameras still can't do postprocessing that's why smartphones have that advantage.

Regarding GH5/s vs P4K, thank you for your explanation, they're definitely different cameras for different situations.

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Hello, currently have a GH5 and GH5S but looking to sell the GH5S and replace it with a P4K and soon after add a second P4K. Can anyone recommend any lenses MFT or adapted that have good manual focusing with a long focus throw, I have the sigma 18-35 but the throw seems very short which is problematic during events. Also If anyone has experience with the new Panasonic 10-25mm how is the manual focusing?

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It's about the same, if not worse in that aspect. Rather short.

If you want longer... the T2.2 Veydra Mini Cinema Primes have a massive 300° throw. Meike seems to have taken over where they left off (they officially seized operation recently, but more or less already have been considered dead a while longer now), probably negotiated some deal with the manufacturing plant to make a few new runs offa their plans. Think everything, incl. throw just about stayed the same, but now it's more affordable, accessible. Think they currently have the 12, 16 & 25mm out there (there's also been the Veydra 19mm (albeit the one oddball T2.6), 35mm, 50mm and 85mm).

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16 hours ago, Jermaine said:

Hello, currently have a GH5 and GH5S but looking to sell the GH5S and replace it with a P4K and soon after add a second P4K. Can anyone recommend any lenses MFT or adapted that have good manual focusing with a long focus throw, I have the sigma 18-35 but the throw seems very short which is problematic during events. Also If anyone has experience with the new Panasonic 10-25mm how is the manual focusing?

The Olympus 12-100 is a very versatile lens for photo and video work. I don't know the exact focus throw, but it seems to be around 90 degrees. The Rokinon Cine DS line of lenses are reasonably priced and have about a 150 degree focus throw. 

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1 hour ago, drm said:

The Olympus 12-100 is a very versatile lens for photo and video work. I don't know the exact focus throw, but it seems to be around 90 degrees. The Rokinon Cine DS line of lenses are reasonably priced and have about a 150 degree focus throw. 

Olympus 12-100 is great but it's only at F4. I use the 35-100 f2.8 at events and it's still pretty noisy if there's not enough light. I would suggest the Sigma 50-100 or Canon 70-200 with Speedbooster but the drawback is that they're pretty heavy

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1 hour ago, TurboRat said:

Olympus 12-100 is great but it's only at F4. I use the 35-100 f2.8 at events and it's still pretty noisy if there's not enough light. I would suggest the Sigma 50-100 or Canon 70-200 with Speedbooster but the drawback is that they're pretty heavy

I shoot in 4f-5.6F anyway. Usually there are lights in performances (dance, music, theater) or else the audience can not see.

GH5S and Pocket4K have no problem with native 3200ISO.

GH5 is very noisy anyway.

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4 hours ago, Yannick Willox said:

I am always wondering of the oly 12-100 does not have way too much distortion on the (uncorrected) P4k.

my panaleica 12-60 is just OK at 12mm. My old 14-50 4/3 panaleica is already better at the wide end (as is my 14-150 mm). Glad I did not sell them !

AF does not work on the 14-50 by the way.

that is a very good question, as I haven't received my P4K yet, I do not know. I suspect that it won't be as good as on the Panasonic/Olympus cameras.

I am afraid all newer-ish lenses will be like this though, from every brand. One good reason to stay in the same brand for camera - lenses.

12mm to 14mm is a big difference in the wide end.

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Just for information, some quick tests. The L-ES014050 is the old 4/3 PanaLeica kit lens for the Lumix L1. The other lens is the new PanaLeica 12-60 mm. To compare it was around 15mm, not exactly the same field of view, but difficult to judge, as the distortion is already way higher. At 12mm it goes crazy, still useable for wide shots if you don't have anything straight near the edges.

Now I have read that the Oly 12-100 has even more severe distortion then the PanaLeica 12-60 ?

Does anyone know how we can use something like a lens profile in Adobe Raw (Adobe Raw does not have them for Panasonic lenses, as they are corrected in-camera) ?

H-ES12060_12mm.mxf H-ES12060_12mm_bis.mxf H-ES12060_15mm.mxf L-ES014050_14mm.mxf

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52 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said:

Now I have read that the Oly 12-100 has even more severe distortion then the PanaLeica 12-60 ?

Does anyone know how we can use something like a lens profile in Adobe Raw (Adobe Raw does not have them for Panasonic lenses, as they are corrected in camera.

I would like to know about the Oly 12-100mm as well. 

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8 hours ago, Yannick Willox said:

Just for information, some quick tests. The L-ES014050 is the old 4/3 PanaLeica kit lens for the Lumix L1. The other lens is the new PanaLeica 12-60 mm. To compare it was around 15mm, not exactly the same field of view, but difficult to judge, as the distortion is already way higher. At 12mm it goes crazy, still useable for wide shots if you don't have anything straight near the edges.

Now I have read that the Oly 12-100 has even more severe distortion then the PanaLeica 12-60 ?

Does anyone know how we can use something like a lens profile in Adobe Raw (Adobe Raw does not have them for Panasonic lenses, as they are corrected in-camera) ?

H-ES12060_12mm.mxf 7.2 MB · 1 download H-ES12060_12mm_bis.mxf 7.2 MB · 0 downloads H-ES12060_15mm.mxf 7.2 MB · 1 download L-ES014050_14mm.mxf 7.2 MB · 1 download

I have both of these lenses (along with many more). What are you looking for? Are you looking to see a comparison of the lens between the GH5 & P4K to see how much correction is being implemented in the GH5/GH5s?

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2 hours ago, drm said:

I have both of these lenses (along with many more). What are you looking for? Are you looking to see a comparison of the lens between the GH5 & P4K to see how much correction is being implemented in the GH5/GH5s?

No, i just wanted to point out that, although I like the m4/3 system, using native lenses on p4k can have some big disadvantages. I have those lenses and a gx80, so I know the differences.

So, what happens with the new and very expensive 10-25 mm ? It could be borderline unusable on the P4K ?

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3 hours ago, drm said:

I have both of these lenses (along with many more). What are you looking for? Are you looking to see a comparison of the lens between the GH5 & P4K to see how much correction is being implemented in the GH5/GH5s?

Yes, I am sure some wonder about the possibilities of using m43 lens as run and gun solutions.

I am interested especially in the 12-100mm Olympus.

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22 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Yes, I am sure some wonder about the possibilities of using m43 lens as run and gun solutions.

I am interested especially in the 12-100mm Olympus.

I frequently use the Oly 12-100 on my GH5s, where I use it most of the time and really like this combo. I put it on one of my P4Ks with a shoulder rig today and was surprised at the difference. The Oly 12-100 shows visible distortion on straight lines (think door frames) both in the middle and on the edges of the lens. I will have to use this combo more to decide for sure, but at the moment, I am leaning toward saying this is not a good combination. 

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14 minutes ago, drm said:

I frequently use the Oly 12-100 on my GH5s, where I use it most of the time and really like this combo. I put it on one of my P4Ks with a shoulder rig today and was surprised at the difference. The Oly 12-100 shows visible distortion on straight lines (think door frames) both in the middle and on the edges of the lens. I will have to use this combo more to decide for sure, but at the moment, I am leaning toward saying this is not a good combination. 

Unfortunately, this is the case for more than a few m43 lenses. Pana/Oly both apply some hidden lens corrections even in raw. BM doesn't obviously. :( 

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